Can I say that we will oppose this motion, though I do recognise the strength of feeling and the passion that, in particular, is on the Plaid Cymru benches? But I do think that this whole subject requires deep discernment rather than brief debate, and we always need to be modest when we are passing judgment on another state altogether.

Whilst the first two points of this motion are not contentious, the third and fourth certainly are. I share some of the frustrations that Lee Waters has just expressed, that some of the decision making by the Spanish state has not been exemplary, to put it very modestly. But I'm afraid the Catalan Government cannot be excused some of the errors it has made as well, especially in not creating an environment in which those Catalans who do not support independence can freely express their views and take them onto the streets and the polling stations.