8. Plaid Cymru debate: Catalonia

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:34 pm on 6 December 2017.

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Photo of Mr Simon Thomas Mr Simon Thomas Plaid Cymru 5:34, 6 December 2017

Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. First of all, can I welcome what the Cabinet Secretary has just said on behalf of the Government. I understand why the Government might do that, but I want to see the freely expressed views of her backbenchers on this issue, because this is not a motion in favour of Catalan independence, or even in support of the Catalan Government. It's a motion designed around parliamentary democracy and the expression of free will by the peoples of states, whether they're nation states or not. In that regard, I'm very pleased to have the support of a wide range of political voices, it has to be said—from Neil Hamilton to Lee Waters, Mick Antoniw, and others who have contributed to this debate and focused on the democratic rights of people to have their say. It is something that we've learnt over a long period in the United Kingdom to deal with, running up to the ability to give a referendum to the Scottish people, agreed between two Governments of equals. Perhaps we learnt it at the time that we lost the 13 colonies, if you want to go back that far. 

I invite David Melding to return to William and Mary college, where I know he goes every year, and give that speech to those naughty American communists who dared to declare independence and dared to secede from a state that wasn't providing for them. Because that's what's at the heart of this debate, and I very much regret David Melding's approach to this. I expected something stronger in terms of democratic principles—that he gave us earlier, if you like—but I think he was constrained by the fact that Rajoy and May have been dancing down Downing Street this week, and was forced to give a party-political line. [Interruption.] I'm sorry, I really don't have time.

I think we want, in this place, to unite as parliamentarians, and as people who agree with the right of a Parliament to express the will of and negotiate on behalf of its people.

There is a personal element to this as well. There are four individuals still in prison in Catalunya due to the actions of the Spanish state, which everyone I think agrees has overreacted so far. We have to remember the names of Oriol Junqueras and Joaquim Forn, the two former Ministers still in prison—Oriol not able to see his children—and the two Jordis, of course, who are civil campaigners, not politicians but civil campaigners, who have also been imprisoned. We must remember them, particularly at this time of year, perhaps. But also, please unite as a Parliament to give an expression of solidarity, not taking sides but solidarity, with other Parliaments who express the will of their people.