Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:41 pm on 12 December 2017.
Yes, well done, Simon. Therefore, they should enjoy some rights. But we can't go on as a society endlessly acceding to the demands of minorities. At some point, we have to recognise that granting more rights to a particular minority group will negatively impact on the rights of the majority of people in our society as a whole.
We have a perfect example of this with the recent controversies over transgender rights. A Conservative Government at Westminster is proposing some fairly wide-ranging increases to the rights of transgender people. This could mean that anyone who wishes to identify as being of a gender different to their physical gender may be able to do so, simply by defining themselves as such. So, we could have men entering women's public toilets because these men claim to define themselves as women. We could have male criminals demanding to be sent to women's prisons because they define themselves as women. We could end up with the Girl Guide movement having to accept men who define themselves as women as guide leaders, because if the Girl Guide movement refuses to do this, they may end up facing prosecution because they have somehow breached somebody's so-called human rights. We are going to have a lot of fun with this over the next few years if we continue to proceed as a society with this kind of minority-obsessed nonsense.
What we need to do is have a grown-up conversation about the issue of minority rights and accept that there have to be limits to them. There is only so much deviation from the norm that any society can take before that society completely implodes. And if we carry on down this road of appeasing the nuttiest elements of the transgender movement, then what we will face as a society, within a very short space of time, is total implosion.
Now, having made this general observation, that is not to say that there is no good work taking place in the field of human rights in Wales. There is some good work going on. But some of the concern that this report expresses is certainly, in my view, misplaced. For instance, there is the issue of prisoners getting the vote. To quote the report,
'Prisoners in Wales, as in the rest of Britain, remain subject to a blanket ban on voting in elections, which the European Court of Human Rights has found to be in violation of their convention rights.'
End of quote. My response to that would be that prisoners are in prison because they have committed offences—that is, apart from the relatively small number who have been wrongfully convicted. They have therefore acted against the interests of society as a whole. In doing so, they have forfeited some fairly major rights, such as the right to their own liberty. Therefore, they are locked up. The right to liberty is a greater right than the right to vote. Therefore, if they forfeit the right to their own liberty, what lunatic dreamed up the notion that they should have the right to vote?
We are about to leave the European Union precisely because of nonsense like this. This proposal to give prisoners the vote has no popular consent. If this is what the European Court of Human Rights comes up with, then the sooner we leave it and all the other related institutions, then the better. Thank you.