5. Debate on the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee report: Branching out: a new ambition for woodland policies

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:24 pm on 13 December 2017.

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Photo of Mike Hedges Mike Hedges Labour 4:24, 13 December 2017

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. First of all, can I thank David Melding, Simon Thomas, David Rowlands, Vikki Howells, Jayne Bryant, Mark Isherwood and the Minister for taking part in this debate, and I think, most importantly, for the positive and consensual way we've all taken it forward? I think I could sit down now and say, 'Well, we're all in agreement, aren't we?' But there are a number of things that I think need saying. I think the first one is: I have no problem with local targets, but is somebody going to count up all  the local targets and publish what those local targets are? Are we then going to find out how people are doing against those local targets? I've no problem with local targets, but if adding up all the local targets comes to 2,000 trees, we've got something wrong. And I think that if it comes to more than we were expecting, then we're moving very much in the right direction, but we also need to make sure that people are meeting those targets. Targets are wonderful things, but if you have lots of local targets around, then somebody needs to co-ordinate it, and I would hope the Minister would report back to our committee on an annual basis—the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee on an annual basis—on how they're doing against those targets.

Moving on. Most people have said very similar things, which is hardly surprising. The committee was in total agreement. There are things like the economic benefits of it, the environmental benefits of it, the wider range of species, and the number of jobs created. I think Vikki Howells highlighted very important work that was done in her area that didn't actually need any Government money either, which is abnormal—every time somebody has got a project they want to know how much they're going to get in either sponsorship or in Government money to do it. I think there are means of doing this that can be economically viable and people can make money out of it.

People talked about a whole range of very good projects. I think one of the things that saddens most of us is that these are sort of isolated projects around Wales. There's the Llynfi project, which I know Huw Irranca-Davies is very proud of, what's going on in Bassaleg, and what's going on in the Cynon valley, but what we should be talking about is what's going on in every town, every city and every valley. It's not just, 'We'll find some good practices.' When people used to visit North Korea, they were taken to see this one area, which was their area to show visitors. We don't want that, do we? We only want to see whether it's working everywhere, so that you can take your pick in terms of where in Wales you go and you will see forestry growing.

It's hugely economic. Natural Resources Wales complain about not having money—or they complain to the committee about not having money. Well, they have major forestry; they should be making money on their timber. Commercial developers are making substantial sums on their timber. We should be looking for them as well to be showing a lead on this.

Mark Isherwood talks about increasing planting rates and sustainable outcomes, but I think on the lack of general support for forestry, what he says there, is absolutely right. We don't talk about forestry here very often. Compare the amount of times we've talked about forestry in here with the amount of times we've talked about agriculture. I think that forestry is losing very dramatically against that.

We want sustainable outcomes, but I think that, really, there are huge benefits to trees. I mean, they benefit the environment. We talk about the problems we've got with air quality. Well, plant some trees. We talk about the problems we've got with flooding. Plant some trees. We talk about the problems we have with urban areas looking unpleasant. Plant some trees. We talk about dereliction in some of our older communities. I know that people use the words 'Valleys communities', well, can I welcome them to areas like Swansea East, for example, which may not be considered a Valleys community, but it has areas of economic deprivation and has one of the largest tree planting schemes in Europe taking place in it, to reclaim the lower Swansea valley? Kilvey Hill was covered in trees. This can be done. It's been done before.

It really is important that we work on ensuring that we increase the amount of coverage that we have of trees, that we work on ensuring that forestry is seen as an important part of the Welsh economy, that it is seen as an important area. If anywhere else was generating 10,000 jobs, we'd be talking about it as a major employer and how important it was. There are 10,000 jobs in forestry, but because they're not all in one factory—. If somebody created a factory with 10,000 jobs, we'd have a list of people in here rushing down—Ministers, opposition spokespeople—to go to visit it and say, 'Isn't it wonderful that this place is creating 10,000 jobs?' But because they're distributed all around Wales, then we're perhaps less inclined to consider it. But many of them are in areas that have high unemployment and often the employment they have is very low-paid. So, forestry makes a big difference to those areas. 

I just really want to say that I think we're all on the same side. I think the Minister has responded very positively and I'll just end by repeating what I said earlier: can we have a report to the committee, or to the Chamber here, on an annual basis on how we're doing against those local targets? Because I think that really is something that very many of us want to see. Local targets are fine, but can we have them added up and given to us? Thank you.