5. What assessment has the First Minister made of the impact on Wales of China’s decision to ban imports of plastic? OAQ51528

I'd refer back to the answers I gave to the previous question, but I can say that our assessment is that Wales has a good bit of resilience to the ban because of our policies for high-quality recycling. In addition, we are working to get even higher quality and to increase the take-up of plastic recycling in Wales, so safeguarding businesses and creating jobs.

I thank the First Minister for that response. I'm sure the First Minister would agree that stopping the use of plastic to begin with is the key to cut down on any exports that were needed. Does he think that one of the ways possibly of doing this is to offer incentives to local authorities to bring back drinking fountains into use? Because, if you have widely available drinking fountains, that does take away the need for the plastic bottles of water that many people carry around. So, would he think that the widespread introduction of fountains would be a good way to move forward?

It's an interesting idea, I have to say. It's been a long time since there was a drinking fountain that operated in my hometown. In fact, I don't remember it operating, but it's still there in my hometown of Bridgend. I think a lot of people would use drinking fountains if they were there. It's not that long ago that the very idea of buying water in a plastic bottle would have seemed very strange to so many of us, when it came out of the tap. It wasn't until I lived in London in the late 1980s that I realised why people in London were drinking bottled water, given the quality of the water that was there, certainly at the time.

But I think that is an idea that's worth looking at. Whether there are any legal issues that arise as a result, I don't know. I can't see, sensibly, why there should be, but it is something that I will take up and write to the Member further on.

Is the First Minister confident that the huge volumes of plastic that we have been exporting to China have been properly recycled, rather than, for instance, sent to landfill?

Well, we know that we cannot keep on—. I mean, in terms of what happens in China, that's a matter ultimately for the Chinese, but they have made it very clear that they won't accept any more plastic. I think that, in the medium to long term, the Chinese ban could help to improve the quality of recyclable materials. It will encourage investment in recycling infrastructure here in Wales and could have a positive effect of the development of a circular economy.

The challenge now is there for businesses to see the opportunity that now presents itself, because it's no longer the case that there is a cheap alternative that makes it difficult for the business model to work. There is now an opportunity to recycle more in Wales and create more jobs in Wales.

It should be a national target, surely, that we shouldn’t be exporting our waste and, specifically, that we shouldn’t be exporting plastic waste. Yes, we should reduce our usage of plastics, as Julie Morgan suggested, but, when plastic is used, ensure that it is also reused even before it’s recycled. Now, reuse relies on a system of some sort of deposit-return scheme. There is agreement between his party and mine on looking into that in light of the budget. So, what sort of role does he see for such a proposal and such a plan in order to ensure that we reuse more plastics?

Well, that is one thing, of course, that the report next month will consider: in what way can we ensure that more plastic is reused and recycled, and also, of course, how can we ensure that people use less plastic. The problem that we have, of course, is that the majority of the waste—not just the plastic, but the majority of the waste—that’s generated in Wales comes from outwith Wales. We cannot put rules in place in terms of how things are wrapped, and we have to deal with what’s imported into Wales, but that doesn’t mean to say that we must not consider schemes to reduce the plastic that isn't recycled. That's what the programme will be looking at, and that's what the report—part of the report—will be looking at when it's published next month.