Can I say that this consultation and the national debate it's now going to spark, I hope, is highly welcome? I'm the only Conservative Assembly Member that has served in all the Assemblies so far. This is the fifth, and, in the first one, we did actually debate this issue of physical chastisement of children on a motion I think that was proposed by Christine Chapman and there were nine Conservatives in the Assembly then, and three of us voted for that motion. So, there has been cross-party support for this and there have been, obviously, people from all across the parties who feel the defence should be retained. I think what's vital is that we have this debate in the context of promoting the most positive parenting and an environment in which our children are allowed to flourish. One of the concerns we do need to remember is that it's much less the de minimis smacking, so called, that goes on in a culture that allows that, however minor the physical assault is. There is then a certain acceptability of the use of physical force, which can get way out of control, and those sorts of abuses may well be more preventable in a culture that says, 'The law here is very, very clear'. And I think we need to be minded of those children that are vulnerable to real physical harm sometimes, although I completely accept that that's way beyond anything that the vast majority of parents would regard as being remotely reasonable. 

Can I end by saying that we unfortunately have to face this debate as a question of criminal law? And I don't think that's helpful. I think it's much better to talk about the lawfulness of something, and, if we change the law, it's much better to say that physical chastisement is no longer lawful, and where it occurs, you would expect an intervention, but in the vast majority of cases, it will be informal and way below any criminal proceedings. That's my understanding of what's happened internationally, and that's what we should be encouraging. I do commend the Welsh Government for now taking this forward, and I'm sure that we will have a very extensive conversation with the people of Wales that we serve. There'll be many opinions, and Caroline is quite right to express the opinion of those who have a different view, but I think we need a full and proper debate. In my view, 20 years ago, I felt that it was time to move on, but I certainly think it is now.