We move on, then, to the next item.

The next item is the debate on the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee report, 'Turning the tide? Report of the inquiry into the Welsh Government's approach to Marine Protected Area management'. I therefore call on the committee Chair to move the motion—Mike Hedges.

Motion NDM6620 Mike Hedges

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the report of the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee on 'Turning the tide? Report of the inquiry into the Welsh Government’s approach to Marine Protected Area management', which was laid in the Table Office on 7 August 2017.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. I think marine discussions are a bit like buses—you wait a very long time for one and two come along very quickly. I am delighted to open today’s debate on the report from the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee on the management of marine protected areas in Wales. I need to thank the previous Chair of the committee, Mark Reckless, and members of the committee who worked on this inquiry—Jenny Rathbone, Huw Irranca-Davies and Siân Gwenllian—who are no longer members of this committee. I really thank them for the work they did in producing what I think has been a very good report.

This is the second debate, as I said, held this week in the Chamber on marine policy. I believe it's a very important policy and it’s appropriate that it should be given this level of focus. Somebody once said that we shouldn't be called planet earth, we should be called planet water, because far more of our surface is covered by water than is covered by earth. So, I think that we do need to give the marine environment a great deal of thought. The marine environment makes up over half of the area of Wales and is home to some of the most biologically diverse habitats and species in Europe. In order to make sure they will survive and benefit future generations, two thirds of Welsh seas are protected in some way due to their vulnerability.

The response to the report: the committee made 12 recommendations in total, 11 of which were accepted in full or in principle by the Welsh Government. Despite our recommendations being accepted, however, it is unclear what, if anything, will be done differently as a result. In order to address this, I wrote to the Cabinet Secretary to seek clarification. A response was received in advance of this debate and this exchange of correspondence is accessible via today’s Plenary agenda.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

Assembly Members and stakeholders will see from the exchange that the Cabinet Secretary has addressed a small number of the committee’s many concerns, but the majority of our questions are still unanswered. But I'm sure the Cabinet Secretary will address those today. Our report, 'Turning the tide', addresses several issues, including the Welsh Government’s approach to enforcing, the availability of reliable data and funding and management of marine protected areas post Brexit. But, today, I will concentrate on the three key areas that came out of the inquiry: the need for the Welsh Government to take a stronger leadership role, the need for appropriate levels of resource, both financial and staffing, and the need for greater transparency in the work that is already ongoing.

During our inquiry, we heard criticism from stakeholders about the lack of leadership from the Welsh Government. This is not a new complaint. Our predecessor committee heard calls for a stronger lead from the Welsh Government back in 2012. Stakeholders want the Welsh Government to give a clear strategic direction. This would ensure that a coherent management system for marine protected areas is in place and that it is understood by all. Simply put, for Wales to fully realise the benefits of its marine protected area sites, it must be managed effectively. The committee has therefore recommended that the Welsh Government should bring forward a marine protected area strategy and that all management authorities, including the Welsh Government, are fulfilling their duties and responsibilities in relation to marine protected area management. This recommendation was accepted by the Welsh Government, but it's apparent from the response there will be no marine protected area strategy. I hope that I've misunderstood that and there will be a marine protected area strategy. There will an action plan. The obvious concern is that this will not be the strategic document that is so badly needed. I hope that the term 'action plan' will be started off by a strategy, and the action plan will sit underneath that strategy, because we do need a strategy to take us forward, and the action plan should sit underneath that strategy rather than exist in isolation. 

Cabinet Secretary, stakeholders have been expressing concern about a lack of leadership for at least five years. These are sincere concerns from people about the marine environment. These are people who work in the environment, who take a deep interest in the environment and who want to see an improvement in marine protected areas management. Their concerns should be addressed. It's not clear from your response what, if anything, will be done differently in the future. These are people who really care about the marine environment, and whilst other Members here will get up and make speeches on it, these people care about it day in, day out, and for many of them it is the passion of their lives. 

The second key area was resources, both financial and staffing. Stakeholders did not ask for vast sums of money or a huge increase in staffing numbers. I think they actually understood that they were unlikely to get either of those. They were very pragmatic and understood the wider financial pressures the Welsh Government is under. But, they were clear: marine protected areas cannot be managed effectively without the appropriate level of resources. The committee notes that an additional £0.5 million has been made available for marine and fisheries in the 2018-19 budget. This is intended to address a variety of issues, including the costs associated with identifying and designating five new marine protected areas and ensuring that marine protected areas achieve and remain in favourable conditions. Of course, this additional resource is welcome, but we have sought reassurance from the Cabinet Secretary that this resource is sufficient to deliver their several ambitious priorities. Put simply, is there enough money to achieve what we want to see achieved?

We were not reassured that the current staffing resources within Welsh Government are sufficient to deliver its marine conservation responsibilities. We were also concerned that a lack of resources would have a negative impact on Natural Resource Wales’s ability to deliver its marine protected area-related activities in the immediate and medium terms. We also asked the Welsh Government to bring forward proposals for funding an area-based approach, with each management area having a dedicated officer. The evidence suggests that there are benefits to this approach, particularly for strengthening local delivery and facilitating cross-site collaboration, and, I would argue, perhaps most importantly, for people to know the person they have to go and see about a problem in the area. I think that having somebody in charge, somebody responsible for it, makes life a lot easier. These issues are addressed in our second recommendation, which the Welsh Government accepted in principle. However, the Cabinet Secretary has said she disagrees with an area-based approach, saying that she believes it would be more cost-effective and provide better value for money to focus on specific projects.

It is, of course, the Cabinet Secretary’s right to disagree with the committee’s recommendations. However, it would be helpful to receive information to explain that alternative position. Members will see from our correspondence with the Cabinet Secretary that the committee has asked to see any financial analysis that supports the Cabinet Secretary’s position. We have yet to receive that, but I'm sure, again, that will be provided for us this afternoon.

Transparency—we'll turn now to our third key area. Many stakeholders felt strongly there was a lack of transparency in relation to the meetings of the considerable number of Welsh Government-led groups in this field. The committee welcomes the commitment given by the Cabinet Secretary that minutes of the marine protected areas management steering group will be published.

We were also advised that updates from the steering group are also shared with the Wales marine stakeholder advisory and action group, and are available on the internet. However, no minutes of this group are available, only their terms of reference. I am disappointed that the Cabinet Secretary’s response says that the notes from the Wales marine fisheries advisory group are available, but only on request. Why can't they just be put on the internet? People put lots and lots of things on the internet. People who are interested in it will be able to access it. If we get one thing out of today, please can we ask that those are put on the internet? If they're available to anybody who asks for them, then they're not being kept secret for any particular reason, then, to save people having to ask for them, let's just put them on the internet, and let people have access to them.

For other Welsh-Government-led groups, summaries of meetings are available, but again only on request. And I make the same request to the Welsh Government—don't just only provide them on request, make them available on the internet. This does not address the considerable concerns expressed by stakeholders about the lack of transparency of these groups. I would be grateful if the Cabinet Secretary could explain why the minutes of all of these groups’ meetings cannot be published.

In conclusion, this is a vital area, given the value of our marine protected areas to supporting wildlife, our coastal tourism industry, and our fisheries. I am grateful to all the stakeholders and members of the public who contributed to the committee’s work. I am also very grateful to members of the committee, who put an awful lot of time and effort into this project. I believe that this is an important report, however I must end by reiterating the committee’s concerns that, despite all but one of our recommendations being accepted, there's a lack of clarity about what will change in practice and, as a consequence, whether any progress will actually be made.

Cabinet Secretary, as we saw in yesterday’s debate on the marine plan, this is an exciting time for marine policy in Wales, and there is support across this Chamber for a renewed emphasis on this policy. There's support in amongst the public, especially those in the voluntary and other sectors, who take an interest in the marine environment and this policy. You've got an awful lot of goodwill, Cabinet Secretary, from Members in here and from the public at large, and I hope you will use that goodwill to keep on taking things forward. I welcomed the marine report yesterday, and I think that that is a step forward. I hope you will take the opportunity to reassure stakeholders that this is a priority area for you, and that they can expect to see meaningful improvements as a result of this report. We've waited a long time for the marine to make its way to the top of the political agenda in Wales, and we have pushed it there this week. Let's hope that we can make substantial progress following this debate.

Can I just say how delighted I am that we have the second of two debates on the maritime environment this week? And I hope this will demonstrate the close co-operation that the legislature and the Executive will have in this vital area of public policy, which does need substantial improvement, as our Chair, Mike Hedges, has already alluded to. And can I join him in thanking all those who allowed us to issue such an authoritative report—all the people who co-operated with us, in our various visits, and gave evidence, and also our outstanding secretariat and the research staff?

It's a formidably complicated area. I have to say, in all my time here as an Assembly Member, I don't think my statistical and analytical abilities were more tested than trying to make some sense of our designation system, in terms of seas and coasts around Wales. Around 50 per cent of our seas, and 75 per cent of our coastlines, are protected by MPAs. However, as we heard in a survey of some 727 stakeholders, 35 per cent thought ineffective management was one of the biggest threats facing the marine environment. And I think, if there's one thing I took away from this report is that we must always remember that designation does not automatically mean effective management. And I think that's at the heart, really, of what the Government now needs to achieve, to ensure that designation does lead to the effective management of our marine resources, and the encouragement and protection of marine life.

Yesterday, in this vein, I emphasised the need for good data and monitoring. Again, it's a point that's been made strongly in this inquiry, but as I made that a highlight of the speech I made yesterday, I won't repeat it here this afternoon. Can I talk, Deputy Presiding Officer, about the first recommendation in this report and I think it's probably the most important? That states that the Government must provide leadership on this matter by developing an MPA strategy and by ensuring that all management authorities are actively engaged and are fulfilling their duties and responsibilities. Now the draft plan is really important and will receive our most detailed attention. Even though the Government has accepted this recommendation, the Government's subsequent responses have not always been I think up to the mark, though, as I've said, I want to give credit to the Minister at least for delivering the plan now, and let's hope that is a starting point for better performance in this area of public policy. 

But we have here this repeated call for effective leadership and it's something that goes back a long way. The Environment and Sustainability Committee's report in the fourth Assembly on the inquiry into marine policy in Wales, published in 2013, noted that marine stakeholders felt that the previous Welsh Government had often had, and I quote, an 'and marine' mentality with the marine environment and economy treated as an afterthought. The committee's legacy report in 2016, which obviously we've noted very carefully, noted stakeholders were concerned that even three or four years on that mentality  still persisted. I have to say that was something that we found in our evidence, and I know that the Government hopes to improve its delivery of marine policy, and we will be active partners in ensuring you're able to do that, but we certainly need this new start. 

As I said, this really does come back to how the Government sets priorities and enables the likes of NRW to implement their statutory duties effectively, and, previously the Countryside Council for Wales said they sought a greater lead from Welsh Government on MPA management. Let me just quote one person, Professor Warren, from Aberystwyth, and she said that the Welsh Government, 

'is not strong enough in its ideas'—

I think that's really key here— 

'as to what it actually wants at the moment to be able to give the lead to people'.  

So, again, that's the objective of the plan you've brought forward I hope. 

Can I just finish by briefly saying about resources? The committee's been concerned about the extent of NRW's current statutory obligations and there have been hints from NRW, I think, that they are fully extended at the moment. I think we do need to be satisfied that they have the ability to ensure that effective monitoring and reporting and management of marine protected areas is achieved now, because it's not been done in the past and that is what we need to rectify. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. 

I’m sure it is appropriate that, as we discuss marine issues, tides come and go twice a day—I don’t know whether it’s ebb or flow today, but I just want to highlight the fact that I’m not going to repeat what I said yesterday on the marine plan. So, if people are more interested in Plaid Cymru’s marine policy, then they should read both transcripts together. I just want to focus in this debate on three issues that have emerged from the committee report. One is about funding and resources, one is about data, which has just been mentioned by David Melding, and one is about the future direction of travel.

It became clear from the evidence gathered by the committee that most people involved in safeguarding biodiversity and marine conservation don’t believe that the Welsh Government is allocating sufficient resources to tackle these issues. And that varied, not in criticism of staff, but criticism of a lack of ideas and a lack of resources provided, and that is clearly demonstrated in the fact that the committee has recommended very clearly a way forward for the Welsh Government in this area, namely to designate six clear areas of marine conservation under different systems and levels, as David Melding referred to, in terms of designation, conservation and biodiversitybut to designate six clear areas and to ensure that sufficient funding is available for each of those areas, using local partners and placing the Welsh Government at the centre of that web, as the people who lead and manage this. In looking at the way the Government has responded to those recommendations, essentially, the Welsh Government isn’t going to do that. Essentially, nothing will change as a result of the publication of this report in terms of the way the Government has responded to it. And I do think that that is a significant failing by Government, particularly in the context that the Government published its marine plan yesterday, and we discussed that, and the response to the various MPAs is very important in delivering the marine plan.

The second reason I’m concerned is that we do have a lack of data—there is a lack of data collection, and there is a lack of data in order to compare one period with another, which leads us to the conclusion that we heard in committee on a number of occasions, namely that the MPA designation—the marine protected area, and that covers all of the designations, if you like—in and of itself didn’t lead to an improvement in what was happening in that specific area. And we have similar experiences in the SSSIs on the mainland, of course; every time there’s a designation, it doesn’t necessarily lead to an improvement in biodiversity, or the status of the area, or improved conservation. But we need to highlight that, and one of the reasons that we found that is a lack of data underpinning it. There’s no way to prove that the system works—it’s as simple as that—and therefore it’s difficult to justify spending public money on it, one has to be honest. But what you have here is an interesting question as to which comes first. You have to invest in order to gather data in order to demonstrate that the public funding is being spent in a way that improves biodiversity and improves the quality of our seas and leads to more robust defences in the long term.

And the final point, if I can conclude on this, is that there is a lack of clarity about how we take this forward now for the future. Due to that lack of data, due to the lack of resources over a large period of time, there is complete confusion, it has to be said, about how we take forward marine protected areas, and the interaction of those marine protected areas with other areas in which we want to see sustainable activities, including fishing, including coastal communities profiting from those areas, including marine developments that we discussed yesterday as part of the marine plan. And we were unable to really get to the heart of that because there is that lack of transparency that's been referred to, and there is that lack of clarity about who is responsible for what and who will lead. The clearest message that came from the evidence was that the stakeholders wanted the Welsh Government to lead, but the Welsh Government was not prepared to lead, and I think that's something that the Cabinet Secretary really has to get hold of and assert her authority on within the department and the way we take it forward. 

Now, how do we take this forward in the future? Well, as we leave the European Union, of course, a lot of these designations will change. A lot of them are under EU habitats and bird directives. Some are designated as marine conservation zones, which are also EU law, but some are international law—Ramsar sites, I think, is international law. And therefore, to conclude on this, if I may, Deputy Presiding Officer, we have this mix of law and that some will apply and some won't as we leave the European Union, and we also have this challenge to the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill itself under the Aarhus convention as to whether we're actually taking into account stakeholders' concerns in all of this. I don't think the response from the Government to date has really addressed the committee's concerns, and I very much hope that this debate will help lead to further interaction between the committee and the Government to ensure better action in this area. 

I'd like to start by welcoming the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee's report into the Welsh Government's approach to marine protected area management. I am a former member—I wasn't a member when this report was written, but I'm back on that committee now. I've been a champion for the bottlenose dolphin for a couple of years now, and I do feel incredibly lucky to represent an area that is home to the largest semi-resident and breeding population in Wales of this iconic species, located in Cardigan bay. And it was just over 12 months ago that sections of Cardigan bay's special area of conservation were reopened to scallop dredging. It was previously stopped due to a smash-and-grab process that was being carried out at that time and that is the best way to describe it. The seabed was absolutely smashed to bits and the scallops that existed there were grabbed and it was all very unpleasant, but it was stopped.

So, I was pleased to see that the report recognised the importance of gathering evidence and data—and we're back to that again—through monitoring and surveillance as crucial in managing marine protected areas. Because it's only high-quality research and monitoring of the potential impacts of scallop dredging, boat traffic and other activities that will enable us to monitor the health and the population of bottlenose dolphins and, of course, all the other marine animals in that particular area. Whilst data collection is a critical part of research, being able to interpret the results is also crucial. I've heard some evidence that due to financial constraints, some organisations—and they would be the ones that gave evidence to this report—are struggling very much with that.

Equally, I was concerned about points raised in the report about the Cardigan bay special area of conservation relevant authority group about tightening regulations for wildlife trip operators, and the need to strengthen marine conduct through statutory measures. You'll be aware that disturbance from boats can have, and does have, a detrimental impact on not just the bottlenose dolphins, but is also related to a decline in live birth rates.

We talked yesterday an awful lot about pollution, and I'm really, really pleased that we do now have a clear plan. The pollution that can very often come off boats is hugely detrimental to anything that is going to survive in that sea. So, I do really call for very, very close monitoring in that regard. I'm also aware that there was correspondence, Cabinet Secretary, between you and the committee in November, when you said that the indicative site reports for each of our special areas of conservation and special areas were due to be published by the end of the year. I wonder now whether those reports are available, and if they are available, what the findings might be.

I'm very pleased to congratulate the committee for this interesting and informative report, which is very balanced and fair. One of the things that has impressed me about this Assembly since I've been here is the way that these committees do work effectively with a cross-party consensus view very, very often. I would also like to commend the committee members for the immense amount of work that has gone into producing this report, which was referred to by David Melding. I always listen to his speeches, as I do, indeed, to my neighbour, Simon Thomas's speeches, on this subject with great interest, and I never fail to learn something.

I've got little to add to what's been said already. I agree with everything that's been said in this debate so far. It's very important, of course, for Members from Mid and West Wales in particular. We've got more coastline and more water than anyone else in this Assembly and I'm the third of our four Members for the region to take part in the debate today, and the only other one is precluded from doing so by being a member of the Government. I think that underlines the significance that we give to this. Some of the best coastal areas of Wales, and some of them the most interesting coastal waters, are in our region. The majority of the Welsh marine protected areas, I think, are within our region—more than anywhere else.particular

The majority of the MPAs have been designated under EU legislation as special areas of conservation or special protection areas, and this is a precious resource that is vitally important for us, not just to recognise and designate, as the committee's report points out, but also to protect, defend and enhance. This is what, ultimately, it's all about. Site management and monitoring and enforcement are the next stage.

I'm very pleased to see that, in mentioning enforcement, the committee says that the Government should develop an enforcement strategy based on risks, because, inevitably, in environmental concerns, there are competing interests—not necessarily in conflict with one another—where different emphases might be put according to one's interest in the subject matter. I'll come to that, perhaps, in a moment. I agree with the committee's view that there should be no further designation of protected areas until the current suite of MPAs are brought into effective management.

Of course, the question of uncertainties related to Brexit inevitably rears its head in these circumstances, but post Brexit, the Welsh Government will be able to implement its own policy direction, as outlined in the committee report, and rationalise the existing regime. I support a two-tier system of MPAs without reducing the levels of protection, as the committee has recommended. I think it's an advantage to us in future that rather than automatically accepting EU legislation, UK and Welsh Ministers will have the opportunity to designate marine conservation zones, and I agree with the committee's recommendation that this should be a priority if it is to be achieved.

I'm pleased that the Cabinet Secretary has guaranteed that there will be no diminution in funding following the EU, and I hope her letter to Mike Hedges of 2 November puts this firmly to bed, where she says,

'I have made it clear on a number of occasions I do not expect Wales to lose any funding as a result of Brexit.'

And I'm very, very pleased to hear that.

Concerns have been expressed by some over accountability and monitoring mechanisms, but I think that the Welsh Government is perfectly capable of doing everything that the EU does, and more, and I hope it will do. I will just refer to the evidence of the Welsh Fishermen's Association, because when I mentioned earlier on that there are different interests that need to be reconciled, to an extent, with one another, of course balancing marine management with historic fishing rights is very important, as I said yesterday in the other debate. We do need to develop our seas and help them achieve their economic potential in the future, particularly as some of the poorer areas in Wales are in coastal areas, where the fishing industry has great opportunities now to expand. I hope that we can do that without in any way compromising the other environmental benefits that the Government proposes and the committee recommends us to concentrate on.

So, I'll just conclude by saying that the EU has, in my opinion, been no ally, really, for those working in Welsh and British waters, from fishermen to conservationists over the years. And although the EU's record is improving, it has a shocking record, in fact, over most of the period of our membership for the depletion of the seas and the depredation of fishing species. I'm pleased that the real errors of the CAP are now being addressed, and once we have firm control of fishing policy under our own hands here in Cardiff, I'm sure that we will do even better than we're doing at the moment.

I welcome the committee's report, Dirprwy Lywydd, and very much agree with them that we should be proud of our Welsh seas and our Welsh coastal environment, and that the marine protected areas are important for healthy seas that will maintain that advantage that we have, and support tourism, fisheries and other uses.

I also agree with the committee that, of course, you can never take that quality for granted, and that the current condition of our seas and marine and coastal environments do require urgent attention from Welsh Government and others. There is a need for us to set out a bold and ambitious vision, as I think the committee described it.

What I would like to do is to concentrate on one recommendation of the committee, Dirprwy Lywydd—recommendation 9—because I do think it's very important that the Welsh Government does carefully assess the impact of Brexit because so much of the protection that we have, and the framework of protection that we have, does come from the European Union. I'm very pleased that the Cabinet Secretary and the Welsh Government have accepted that recommendation and, indeed, will set out a vision for the way forward early this year. I know we all look forward to that with eager anticipation. 

In terms of the European Union, Dirprwy Lywydd, the marine strategy directive has been crucial. It was transposed into UK law by UK Government regulations back, I think, in 2010 and from that came the marine strategies, including the one that we have in Wales. It seeks to sustain and conserve and to achieve good environmental status by 2020, which I'm sure all of us would very much support and be in agreement with. So, I know that many of the organisations in Wales and environmental groups very much value what the European Union's efforts have brought in those terms, and generally believe that these regulations have been a vital framework and, indeed, a driving force for the progress that we've seen.

So, what I would like to ask today, Dirprwy Lywydd, is: will the marine strategy regulations be central to the new vision that the Cabinet Secretary will shortly be setting out for our seas and coastal environment around Wales following the UK leaving the European Union? And, also, what discussions has Welsh Government held, and will Welsh Government hold, in terms of taking these regulations forward as a framework following the UK leaving the European Union? Because I really do believe, and I know, that many of the organisations vitally concerned with these matters, with all the passion that Mike Hedges described earlier in terms of what they value in terms of our seas and our coastal environment, and what they want to see conserved and, indeed, developed in the correct sustainable way for the future, a lot of that passion does revolve around these regulations: what they've brought and what they can bring if we continue that approach for the future. So, I know they and I also, Dirprwy Lywydd, would be very keen to get the Minister's assurances and response on those particular matters. 

I'm pleased to take part in such an important debate here this afternoon. Now, as Members will appreciate, this inquiry and report is especially relevant to Pembrokeshire, with the vast majority of the sea around the county located within marine protected areas. Indeed, on a recent trip to Ramsey island with the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, with my species champion hat on, I had the opportunity to discuss this particular inquiry and talk about ways in which the Welsh Government can better support and protect marine protected areas in Wales.

From that discussion and from discussions with other stakeholders and local groups—and I appreciate that the Welsh Government has now published a consultation on its draft marine action plan—it's clear from this report that that strategic direction on marine management in Wales has been historically lacking. It's absolutely crucial therefore that the Welsh Government now develops a plan that works with the marine industry and stakeholders, and can actually be delivered on the ground. Previous reviews of marine management have consistently concluded that a higher priority must be given to MPA management, and whilst the Welsh Government's intentions have been good, as the Chair of the committee said, we need to see leadership on this issue.

Of course, part of the problem is that the Cabinet Secretary's budget is tight and that therefore resources are sometimes insufficient to meet their intended purposes, and I certainly don't envy the Cabinet Secretary's position. The committee's report makes it very clear that there is a need for greater resources in terms of staffing and finance to enable the sustainable management of MPAs across Wales, and stakeholders have been very clear in outlining that the lack of resources is hampering the ability to deliver MPA-related activities. Therefore, it's crucial that, moving forward, the budget for MPA activity is closely monitored. Whilst I'm pleased to see in the Welsh Government's response that the Cabinet Secretary will keep this budget under review, perhaps in responding to today's debate she will commit to updating Members more regularly on the level of resources and strategic direction for its marine conservation policies.    

Of course, staffing and resources aren't the only issues facing marine protected areas in Wales. Recommendation 3 of the committee's report makes it crystal clear that the Welsh Government must increase public awareness of MPAs and improve its engagement with stakeholders and the public. Marine protected areas, when properly managed, offer widespread benefits and the seas off my constituency in Pembrokeshire have been designated to safeguard important species, including the world's biggest concentration of breeding Manx shearwater sea birds and internationally important numbers of puffin, of which I'm proud to be species champion. Indeed, every year, thousands of visitors flock to Pembrokeshire to see our beautiful wildlife, and whilst they are there they, of course, spend money in the local area and help support the local tourism industry.

Now, the Welsh Government has accepted recommendation 3, making it clear that the Year of the Sea campaign 2018 provides a great opportunity to promote the value of our MPAs. However, I am concerned that an approach to increasing public awareness of MPAs and the benefits of these protections beyond 2018 and the Year of the Sea has not been demonstrated, and there haven't been any further commitments outlined in the follow-up letter on 2 November, following a letter from the committee seeking further clarifications. Therefore, given that both our wildlife and Welsh tourism depends so much on the health of our seas, perhaps the Cabinet Secretary could tell us a bit more about what action the Welsh Government is taking to promote the benefits of marine protected areas and increase the public understanding of their importance beyond the 2018 Year of the Sea campaign.

Deputy Presiding Officer, like John Griffiths, I'd like to briefly touch on recommendation 9 and the impact that leaving the European Union will have on Welsh MPAs. I appreciate that the Cabinet Secretary has accepted this recommendation. However, no detail was given regarding any assessments that are being made of the impact of exiting the EU on our marine protected areas. As Simon Thomas referred to, the majority of the sea area protected within marine protected areas in Wales has been designated under the EU nature directives within European marine sites, and this includes the Pembrokeshire marine special area of conservation, which covers an area of over 130,000 hectares. As I think Neil Hamilton said earlier, marine protected areas were specifically designed to complement European marine sites as part of a two-tiered protection system, that is, legally and ecologically. So, perhaps, in responding to this debate, the Cabinet Secretary will commit to keeping this two-tiered protection system so that the network of protected sites in Welsh waters can function as intended.

In closing, Deputy Presiding Officer, the benefits of marine protected areas in Wales cannot be understated, but they have to be properly managed and properly resourced. Moving forward, I hope the Welsh Government seriously commits to providing more leadership and promoting the value of Welsh MPAs much more than at present, as this will, no doubt, strengthen our tourist industry as well as environmentally protecting our seas in the future.

Thank you very much. Can I now call the Cabinet Secretary for Energy, Planning and Rural Affairs, Lesley Griffiths?

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I very much welcome this report and the debate we've had today. As several Members pointed out, it does follow on very nicely from the debate we had yesterday on the draft national marine plan. But I think it also emphasises how important our seas are to us.

The Welsh Government's written response to the report and my further letter reflect the very positive spirit in which it was received and our commitment to continue refocusing marine and fisheries policy and strengthening where appropriate. The issues that have been raised here today and the conversations I have with people across Wales demonstrate the importance we all place on having a healthy and resilient marine environment. I think Mike Hedges made a very important point about the goodwill of people, not just in the Chamber, but also within our non-governmental organisations, and, certainly, they are some of the most passionate people I've ever come across—they really believe in what they are doing in relation to our seas. They also reflect how important it is for us to develop policies that are integrated and cross-cutting.

The management of marine protected areas cannot be viewed in isolation. It needs to be part of an integrated approach to the management of the wider marine environment to ensure that we achieve our ambitions and vision for clean, healthy, safe, productive, biologically diverse and resilient seas around Wales that support vibrant coastal communities. Yesterday, we had the debate on the first draft Welsh national marine plan, and that's now the subject of a formal consultation. The plan sets out for the first time a joined-up approach to the planning and management of our seas for the next 20 years, and it works towards our ambition for a resilient marine environment that supports blue growth and sustainable, productive and prosperous fisheries. Key to achieving resilient marine ecosystems is Wales completing its contribution towards a network of marine protected areas and for us continuing to build on our current programme of work to manage our MPAs so that they remain in or, where necessary, are able to achieve, favourable condition.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

The Welsh Government has a strategic role in managing MPAs. We cannot secure favourable conditions on our own, so we will continue to work with other management authorities across Wales through the MPA management steering group to provide leadership and, where necessary, support towards collective fulfilment of our roles and responsibilities. John Griffiths asked a question around what strategies we will be bringing forward, and we will be developing an MPA management framework and that will set out our strategic vision for a well-managed network.

Several Members mentioned funding, and, as part of my ongoing review of funding, right across my very broad portfolio, and aligning resources where the need is, I have made an additional allocation of funding to marine and fisheries of £0.5 million. I think it's important to work with my officials to see how we can use that to the best advantage, and, again, I want to work with the MPA management group in relation to this. It also will require, I'm sure, additional funding as we exit the EU, and, obviously, we need to continue with the assessments that we're making regarding the impact of leaving the EU.

Part of the additional funding will also build on our current programme of work to ensure our MPAs maintain and, where necessary, achieve, as I say, favourable condition. I've asked my department to work with NRW and the management steering group to consider how we can use that to have the most positive impact upon the condition of the network of the marine protected areas.

We need to continue to improve our understanding of the marine environment and how human activities interact with it, so we're working to enhance how we monitor to detect change and, where necessary, investigate cause and effect and scientific data to support and inform policy making and delivery.

Joyce Watson raised concerns around monitoring the environmental impacts, in particular around the scallop dredging in Cardigan bay, and I think that's an absolute best example of work that was undertaken. So, we had that two-year intensity study, which had been led by Bangor University, to inform the management of the scallop fishery in Cardigan bay, which, obviously, is a special area of conservation. That work was the first of its kind, and it's really been hailed as world-leading science. So, it's really important that we continue with that and we apply it to any new management measures.

So, I am continuing to look to invest in marine science in Wales. Looking ahead, we need to identify more opportunities to work with partners such as Bangor University to share those standards, to collect and collate evidence and data from a variety of sources and activities. The availability of robust data, evidence and research is absolutely vital to ensure effective management and sustainable use of our seas, and I'm very grateful for the ongoing participation of stakeholders in developing and delivering a marine and fisheries work programme in Wales.

The Wales marine advisory and action group brings together a broad range of strategic interest groups to ensure effective and meaningful engagement in relation to the delivery of all marine and fisheries work through collaborative working and co-production. Sub-groups are established where there is a need to focus on subject-specific issues. We established a marine planning stakeholder reference group at the start of the marine planning process to provide us with advice, guidance and feedback on the approach, and members of the reference group have co-produced the marine plan content collaboratively.

Mike Hedges said that he only really wanted one thing, most importantly, from today's debate, and that was about having the minutes published, and I did give that commitment, I think, back in the committee appearance I made. My understanding is that the minutes of the meeting of, I  think it was, 30 November, will be published by the end of this month.

Early engagement with stakeholders has been a key priority for the Welsh Government to ensure we identify the implications and opportunities of exiting the EU on our sectors. Members will be aware I established a stakeholder roundtable and a number of sub-groups straight after the referendum back in June 2016—I'm trying to think now. One of the stakeholder sub-groups relates specifically to our seas and coasts and it includes broad representation from the relevant sectors, so the seas and coasts sub-group plays a key role in helping us identify our priorities for managing our seas in a sustainable way, following our exit from the EU. I think it will also help us to develop a set of strategic priorities, including reaffirming our commitment to the sustainable management of our marine natural resources, a fairer deal for the fishing industry and our coastal communities, and a plan-led approach to driving blue growth. My department and I continue to meet with counterparts from right across the UK to discuss the issues arising from our exit from the EU and, of course, marine and fisheries are part of those discussions. And I am absolutely committed to safeguarding our rural, environmental and marine interests, and I think, by working together, we can explore every opportunity to benefit all of our sectors.

I've also been very clear there will be no reduction in our environmental protection in Wales when we leave the EU. An ecologically coherent and well-managed network of marine protected areas is a key part not just of our day one readiness, but also of the management and resilience of our seas for years to come. So, my focus remains on continuing to deliver key economic, social and environmental benefits to Wales. Thank you.

I call on Mike Hedges to reply to the debate.

Diolch, Llywydd. Can I thank David Melding, Simon Thomas, Joyce Watson, Neil Hamilton, John Griffiths, and the Cabinet Secretary for taking part in this debate—and Paul Davies for taking part in this debate? And I think it's really—. I think it really is important that we've got a number of people who aren't members of the committee taking an interest in this committee report. I think we've all seen, far too often, a committee report is the committee talking to the main body amongst ourselves, and I think it's very nice to see so many people interested. Can I say, Cabinet Secretary, I think you've seen today you have the goodwill and support of the committee, of Members across the Chamber, and I think you know you've got that from the non-governmental organisations and, more importantly, perhaps, the public, who are all keen on ensuring that our marine environment is well looked after?

I think your response was very positive. You talked about a resilient marine environment and the Welsh Government's strategic role and I think nearly every Member who spoke talked about the Welsh Government's strategic role; I think that is the key—that Welsh Government is responsible for the strategy. I welcome that you put all documents available on demand—that they are, on demand, to be now put on the internet; I assume that means the Welsh Government website. And I welcome the willingness to work with partners, because they really do want to work with the Welsh Government. They don't want to fight with you. They don't want to quarrel with you. They want to work with you for a better marine environment.

Can I reiterate what Paul Davies said? Can we have regular updates? Not just to the committee, because the eight of us knowing about it is nice, but all 60 of us knowing about it in a Plenary is so much better. And I think that, really, people have mentioned the same things all along. David Melding talked about the ineffective management being a threat, designation does not always mean effective management, and the importance of good data and monitoring. And Simon Thomas said virtually the same thing using different words. But, really, it's about making sure the data's right, making sure the designations are right and effectively funded, and everything is working properly. We want a successful marine environment. I think, if we had a vote on it, 'Do we want a successful marine environment?', we would have 60 hands going up, or 60 people pressing 'yes' on the buttons. 

Can I welcome Joyce Watson back onto the committee? Because I think her interest in both the marine environment and the rural areas is very strong. Scallop dredging has been stopped. That was an interest for several of my constituents, as well as people living in west Wales. She raised the importance of marine life, and I think that sometimes we talk about the marine environment and perhaps we don't always think beyond fish—the whole series of marine life out there, which aren't just fish.

The concern about boat pollution, I think, is something that we perhaps underestimate. We talk about the dangers of cars in urban areas, but you've got boats going out there, often with diesel, sometimes older boats that spill diesel—only small amounts. The effect that can have on the marine environment can be dramatic. 

I think Neil Hamilton emphasised, again, the cross-party consensus and an enforcement strategy based on risk. I think that's something the Cabinet Secretary accepted as well. 

John Griffiths is proud of Welsh seas and the coastal environment. I think that's another thing—. We could put that down as a cross-party resolution. I think that's another one where we'd get 60 yesses. People are proud, and we need to build on the ambitious vision.

Brexit—that's going to happen. I think we just need to make sure that we keep the best of the old and we bring in the new. I think it's no good lamenting that we are leaving the European Union. It's about saying, 'We'll keep everything that's good and we'll add to it and make it better.'

I think that, again, with Paul Davies's discussion with stakeholders, it's very important that we all talk to stakeholders. I think that one of the great strengths of us being here as opposed to being Members of Parliament is that we get more time in our own constituencies and a chance to go and talk to people in our constituencies, to discuss these matters. We need to work with stakeholders because they all want this to work. There's nobody trying to undermine the marine environment. No-one is trying to undermine the marine plan. No-one is trying to sabotage it. Everybody wants it to work. We really do need to give a high priority to marine protected areas, as Paul Davies said. 

Can I just finish by asking for—? Given the first thing that I asked for when I led off, can I ask the second one again? Can we please have regular updates, perhaps annually, to this body, not just to the committee? I think that you've seen today the amount of interest that exists, not just among the eight of us on the committee, but among lots of people who aren't on the committee, who represent areas that have a substantial amount of coastline, where it is an issue that affects them, affects their constituents, and is a matter that is brought to their attention on a regular basis. Thank you.

The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.