Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:48 pm on 16 January 2018.
If the finance Secretary is giving way, that is a complete perversion of the argument that I made in my speech. It's not that any of those things are undesirable, it's just that we have to live within our means in the real world, and you can't forever and a day borrow to pay for things that you can't afford.