8. Debate: The Thurley Review of Amgueddfa Cymru

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:15 pm on 23 January 2018.

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Photo of Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas Independent 5:15, 23 January 2018

(Translated)

I think there are three main areas of recommendations and I’ll try refer to these in turn. They include the need for Amgueddfa Cymru to maximise income to improve sustainability and to decrease its significant dependency on public funding, to develop links and relationships, especially with the Welsh Government, and to develop the interpretation offer in the museums across the entire institution.

Several recommendations identify the need for Amgueddfa Cymru to work differently to maximise its potential for income generation. I acknowledge that it’s not easy for a large and complex organisation to change its business model, but it is important that this does happen and, in the substantial discussions that I’ve had with Amgueddfa Cymru, it’s clear that there is a willingness to accept and embrace the need for change.

In addition to this, the museum is already involved in the Historic Wales partnership, and I certainly appreciate the collaboration between different aspects of heritage work, especially Cadw’s work, which continues—as you’ll remember from a previous statement that I made here—as part of the Government, although it has greater independence in its work and its management. So, I look forward to seeing further development in the partnership and closer collaboration between the institutions in the Historic Wales partnership. I also appreciate the willingness of the unions to take part in the discussions, and the assurance that I can give here publicly that the points of view of staff are a vital part of the process of making decisions.

Amgueddfa Cymru has a real opportunity to consider the excellent improvement made by Cadw in terms of income generation and to learn relevant lessons. While many Cadw sites have an admission charge, this report does draw attention to other national organisations in the United Kingdom that provide free entry to their permanent galleries while charging for admission to see special exhibitions and to receive additional services. So, I’d like to emphasise that Amgueddfa Cymru is considering other opportunities too, including, for example, car and coach parking, improving the catering offer, looking at the opening hours and considering whether it would be possible for some sites to open at particular times of the year.

A recommendation that is also made in this report is vitally important in recommending the appointment of an experienced commercial director. The museum, certainly in its discussions with me, has accepted this idea gladly, because the skills that would be provided by such an appointment would drive change and improvement across the institution.

May I refer again to the particular success of St Fagans? The museum has raised over £30 million to bring the new projects at St Fagans to fruition. The majority of this funding has come from the Heritage Lottery Fund and the Welsh Government, but the rest of the funding, which is a substantial amount, has been raised thanks to the hard work of the trustees and staff of the museum. This funding has come from a variety of sources, which demonstrates that the museum can identify opportunities and attract funding to projects. Even though this process has been successful, it’s important that I acknowledge here today that it has taken considerable time and effort and that I appreciate that time and effort. 

Now, there will always be a balance to maintain between our hugely successful policy, which has been long established, of offering free entry and the need to be more commercially minded, and I’m eager to hear Members' views on how we can ensure that that balance is struck.

The second series of recommendations that I referred to by Dr Simon Thurley revolve around relationships, particularly between the Welsh Government and Amgueddfa Cymru. The report does raise concerns about what it considers an unwarranted level of control. I understand that concern, and, as someone who has been involved in a number of public institutions over the years, I think that it is important at the same time to have stricter scrutiny processes for expenditure and institutions, as well as to ensure that there is a way, in so doing, of looking at other institutions within the United Kingdom that are willing to take advantage of the possibility of generating additional income. There is no opposition in principle to this additional income being generated, as long as it sits alongside the fundamental principle of free entry in general to the institutions. 

I hope therefore that these recommendations will be considered further, and I look forward to the full debate on that in this place. But I'd also like to say one further thing before I conclude my opening comments. Reference has been made in the report, which made very painful reading for me, to a breakdown in the relationship between senior management teams and the unions representing the workforce. Clearly, this isn't a healthy situation for any public body or for any commercial organisation or partnership to be in. I don't want to make any specific comments about management issues here today. That wouldn't be appropriate. I respect the arm's-length principle in cultural institutions and I believe that the Welsh Government must maintain this distance in order to be effective in its scrutiny function of bodies that it funds. I encourage collaboration, including the Acas negotiation process if necessary, and in that situation I hope that we won't fall into the trap of repeating history that would repeat that failure to understand each other.

The third area that I wish to deal with in these opening remarks conveys the importance of developing the particular offer of the museums. I am very grateful for the careful and detailed comments that have been made on all of the locations, but particularly the National Slate Museum, a museum that is very close to my heart, of course, because of the familial link with the industry, and also the National Roman Legion Museum, which I had the huge pleasure of visiting in Caerleon yesterday. Again, the example of St Fagans is before us, and it shows how these smaller museums can take advantage of the experience of St Fagans and at Cadw to develop their offer, demonstrating that a museum isn't a static body but a body that continues to grow as the understanding of the nation's history also grows.

As I said, I have met the museum's officials several times to discuss this report and the recommendations, and I continue to look forward to collaborating with them, and I'm eager this afternoon, and from today onwards, to hear your contribution as the National Assembly that has responsibility for our national institutions in the process of reforming them. Thank you very much for listening.