I think there's a bit of confusion here between the two of us. I was talking in financial terms. I'll ask this question: if the Welsh Government withdrew funding tomorrow, would the museums continue, or would they be forced to close their doors? If they are wholly dependent, or substantially dependent, on the Welsh Government in operational terms, the OCS I'm sure classify them as Welsh Government-controlled bodies. 

One of the things I've argued against during the whole of my time at the Assembly is exploitative contracts: zero-hours contracts, flexible low-hour contracts, annualised hours, agency staff—there's no shortage of ways to badly treat people. I also believe that everyone should be paid the real living wage. The museum staff deserve not to be subject to these employment practices. I am pleased that Mr Thurley acknowledges the high quality of all the museum sites and the impact many of them have for their local communities, both in terms of a museum presence in the locality and providing a source of regular employment in often marginal areas.

Free entry to museums has been a long-standing policy of the Labour Party in Wales. Do not exclude people on price from viewing their history. On charging, I have no difficulty in charging for specific exhibitions, with caveats that anything relating to Wales must be free. I do not believe the people of Wales should have to pay to view their own history. Also, it should not be a back-door method of charging for museum entry. I believe the report is correct in its final section addressing the need for financial stability for the museum and clarity on its funding position over the next few years. In addition to the areas outlined, I would also add that the museum is still in the process of negotiating the 2017-19 pay offer with the trade unions. Any funding settlement needs to take account of the costs associated with this and ensure a period of stability for the organisation going forward.

The museum is at a pivotal moment where it can move forward with a well-funded model that seeks to engage with its staff and their recognised trade unions, and deliver a world-class service provided by professional and well-motivated people, able to deliver for the communities and the people of Wales. Over the last year, the Historic Wales steering group has developed ideas and programmes that it hopes will build and develop such a model, which involves the recognised trade unions in the process. I believe any recommendations should be considered by this group and the report should not derail the development of this work. I think it's important, and I sincerely hope, for the sake of the future of the staff and the cultural sector within Wales, that both the Welsh Government and museum management look to that option as a way to take it forward. 

If I can return to what I was talking about earlier on the financial side of it, you might have whatever rules you've got and whatever charters you've got, but where is the money coming from? There are lots of organisations throughout Wales—they want money from the public sector, but they want to run their organisations as if they're part of the private sector. That is one of the things—[Interruption.] Please, yes.