Yes. Thank you, Presiding—. [Interruption.] Oh, I'll do this, and I'll not clack around. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and thank you to the Member for introducing the debate with such a constructive speech. To be fair, this is a consistent approach from Suzy Davies on both of these issues—disability rights and the broader issues around defibrillators. I am aware of the petition that you referred to at the start of your contribution about grading the accessibility of services for disabled people and it's no surprise that it's gained some traction and I look forward to the consideration the Petitions Committee will give to it.

We, of course, want to see all people having equal access to shops, restaurants and other public places. That is something that most of us do take for granted. So, in principle, the idea does have some merit, and I welcome suggestions about practicalities and how such a scheme could work. I think it would be best to keep things as simple as possible so that it's easy to replicate and understand. It may be challenging for a basic numbering system to take account of the wide range of different access issues that would need to be considered, and I recognise what you said about some of the differing challenges of differing forms of disability. But I think it is a proposal to be welcomed and to be thought through, to be properly explored to see how all premises could be as fully accessible as possible.

Of course, there is a challenge, thinking about our current legislative framework from the original Disability Discrimination Act 1995 and now those provisions forming part of the Equality Act 2010. There are provisions made in particular for smaller shops and businesses in older buildings where it may not be possible to make all of the adjustments we would otherwise expect other businesses and premises to make. But, for most, it should be possible to at least make some changes to make their business more welcoming for disabled people. That inclusive approach, with a positive attitude by staff, would benefit all customers, including people with hidden and visible impairments, people with prams, pushchairs, older citizens, and, frankly, people with no disability at all. There is a broader challenge about customer service in a range of the places that we regularly patronise with our custom or, in fact, choose not to because of a customer service experience. That is something that every business should take some time and attention to look at again.

Of course, the environment and services should be designed to be as accessible as possible for all people to the greatest possible extent. And there's something here—and I was pleased to hear the Member recognise this—about the provisions in the Equality Act, but something that does go beyond that and back to the point about customer service that you made in your own contribution, because that isn't simply about complying with legislation, it is about something much more and, actually, for a number of people, about much greater value, where they really feel valued and welcomed when they go in to access or use a service.

We do need to promote an honest and open discussion—there's a phrase I've heard before, but, an open and honest discussion between disability groups, individuals, the business sector, public service providers and the third sector to understand what we think is required and what we think is possible, whether that’s through a 'scores on the doors' system or by other means, to consider what the options are and what's the best chance of doing something to practically improve accessibility and awareness of it as well. And I was pleased to hear the number of points that you made in your contribution.

You also, of course, referred to defibrillators, a subject that you've mentioned in the past and I'm sure that you'll mention again in the future, whether in a short debate or in questions, moving forward. You'll know that we do have a shared commitment to improving the survival rate for those people who suffer a cardiac arrest in the community. So, the swift use of a defibrillator in tandem with effective CPR and calling 999 as soon as possible offers people the strongest chance of survival. I'm sure I'm not the only person in this room who's undertaken some of that training themselves. My staff have undertaken that training and refresher training as well. It's something that each of us can do to do something practical about that to try and lessen some of the fear, because a point that is regularly made is that, if someone has had a cardiac arrest, you can't hurt them by intervening, because, if you don't intervene, they're not going to be there. There's something here about demystifying. And, actually, for every person who has undertaken training to use a defibrillator, I have been impressed by the fact that it is, 'Oh, it really does tell you what to do'. So, there's something here about taking away some of the concern you understand that people who haven't undertaken that training and had that experience would have.