Thank you. There is also something more than a little dishonest about this argument over more Members being needed. The 1997 referendum was a vote for an Assembly, which was then set at 60 Members. There was no talk of it having to expand later. The 2011 referendum called for primary law-making powers, but didn't explain that more Members would be needed once this had been achieved. Curiously, though, as soon as the new powers arrived, politicians in Cardiff Bay started to tell us that there was now too much for everyone to do—too much legislation, too much scrutiny.

So, it has been a bit of a circular argument, really. 'Give us more powers', the AMs screech. Westminster, after a bit of a battle, duly obliges. Five minutes later, the AMs screech, 'Give us more Members.' So, the Assembly asks for more powers, gets them, then tells the public they don't have enough people to deal with the new powers they themselves called for. This is basically a political scam to hoodwink the Welsh public into accepting more AMs by stealth. Well, you're not going to get your 30 more Members, not unless we have a referendum on it first. That's my view, and that's the UKIP view, and that's why I'm moving today's UKIP motion.