I'm not familiar with the case, but I will look at it and write back. I think that’s the proper way to deal with what the leader of Plaid Cymru has asked for.

We are in agreement a lot this afternoon. I couldn’t agree more with what she said. Why would you take a service that is designed to rehabilitate offenders and try and make a profit out of it? There is no sense in that, and I absolutely agree that—I say 'hopefully, when' and not 'if'—when we get control of the probation service, we can have a properly functioning, publicly run and accountable probation service in the future, not what we have now. Because clearly, to my mind, it’s not just that the case has not been made for a privately run probation service, it’s that it’s been something that I don’t think has been a great success—and she is somebody who, with her background, is passionate about probation and the need to rehabilitate offenders.

It does society no good at all if they do not have the means and ability to find a way to rehabilitate themselves and remove themselves as a nuisance or a danger to the public. In the future, I’d like to see a situation where it is in this Chamber and, of course, through the Welsh Government that the probation service is shaped in Wales.