3. Statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance: JMC (EU Negotiations) Meeting, 22 February 2018

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:05 pm on 27 February 2018.

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Photo of Mr Simon Thomas Mr Simon Thomas Plaid Cymru 3:05, 27 February 2018

Can I thank the Cabinet Secretary for his statement and for the continued patience that he shows with some of these difficulties? Can I particularly thank him for confirming today that the Government is moving ahead with the continuity Bill, long advocated by my honourable colleague, Steffan Lewis? We are, in Plaid Cymru, very pleased to see that this is now a firm part of the Government's armoury—something that we thought should have been there earlier, it has to be said.

I shall return to that just in a second because I want, first of all, to ask the Cabinet Secretary about David Lidington's speech in particular, and what has emerged since the meeting of the JMC. I did find that speech somewhat frustrating and I felt it still demonstrated some of the bullying and threatening manner that Westminster has used towards both governments in Wales and in Scotland. A slight element of threat was there that if you don't behave, then we will retain these powers. I really want to put it in this way: the speech by David Lidington was peppered with reference to the common or internal markets of the UK—something that the Cabinet Secretary didn't mention once in his own statement. We've been part of a common market or a single market for 40 years now. It's had some difficulties and some people have disagreed very strongly with it, but it hasn't affected how we run our own internal mechanisms.

Surely, all that's needed to ensure that we have strong frameworks and agreed frameworks in the UK is a simple respect agenda that addresses all parts of the UK equally, and gives equal roles and weights and strengths to that. The weakness in that of course is England, not Wales or Scotland, but that is a matter for the people of England. If we were to achieve that, there is no-one here of any party that wants to hold back on strong UK frameworks on agriculture, the environment, social welfare or anything else. It's not necessary to hold powers that are now held in common at the European level, to hold them now at Westminster and not to roll those out, following the decision to leave the European Union, to all parts—constituent and constitutionally administratively devolved parts—of the United Kingdom. So, that's very much where Plaid Cymru comes from in this regard.

I understand that the Cabinet Secretary wants to keep his powder dry, wants to continue to negotiate with the Westminster Government, but I don't think he has an opportunity to get a unanimous view on the legislative consent motion here unless it is clear that the people of Wales do have those powers returned to them and that there is no veto, whether it's a short-term veto or a long-term veto, in the hands of Ministers in Westminster.

So, coming from that perspective, can I ask the Cabinet Secretary to clarify how he is now intending to work with the Government of Scotland, as Northern Ireland doesn't have a devolved Government at the moment? How he will continue to work—? I thank him for the work that he has done, and Michael Russell as well; the work has been very clear and has been jointly authored in some cases and has been more successful because of that, I think. So, how does he continue to ensure that does happen?

Can I remind him of what I did say about six weeks ago: you can't trust the Tories? I think we've been proven right, which is why of course you've gone for, now, the continuity Bill. Looking in particular at that Bill, which does give us that extra string to our bow, I do think that had it been introduced earlier, we may have quickened this process. I think we may have demonstrated more strongly to Westminster that we were taking this very seriously, but, you know, we are where we are.

Can the Cabinet Secretary just give the assurance to the Assembly that he does think, assuming we do approve emergency measures next week, that we can deliver this Bill in time not to be overtaken, if you like—or undertaken, whichever way it will be—by the EU withdrawal Bill, so that it will still be a viable option and could still be used in that regard? Can he just say as well that he has had talks with his colleague next to him, the Counsel General, about how such a Bill may, if necessary, be defended in the Supreme Court, if it does come to a lack of agreement between this Government and the Government in Westminster?