I met the national joint council and the Fire Brigades Union and employers' side on 30 January in order to discuss a paper that has been presented to me and other UK Ministers from the national joint council on different ways in which our fire service can develop in order to provide greater services for the community. We do already have a number of additional services delivered by the fire service across different parts of Wales. It is my objective to ensure that we're able to continue this conversation with the fire service, the FBU and the NJC in order to reach an agreement.

I'm also aware of the point that the Member makes about the situation in Scotland. I was very clear with the NJC that I do not necessarily see it as being, as it is currently structured, fit for purpose for the future. I certainly want to ensure that the national Governments in Wales and Scotland are able to have a greater ability to influence what happens there, whilst accepting that we are not the employers in this case, and there has to be a forum for national collective bargaining. We don't disagree with that principle, but we do need, I believe, to have a richer conversation with and about the fire services for the future.

I will also say, Presiding Officer, that I am looking at the moment at reform of the fire and rescue authorities in Wales, and I will be making a further statement on this matter to the National Assembly in due course.