I think it's the way that prisons are being operated in the private prisons. I'm not a supporter of a private prison service. I think the problem they have is the funding to ensure the outcomes can be delivered. If there are budgetary constraints and we have the austerity measures now—[Interruption.] Well, they're getting wages and they're providing a profit for the private owners, aren't they?

But, ultimately, we want to be able to see various issues, and the fewer people in prison the better—alternative mechanisms will be a better solution. We know—everyone knows in this Chamber I have a strong opposition to large prisons, particularly one in my town. I believe—in fact the evidence supports—that large prisons do not work. Berwyn is an example. Just go to Berwyn. I said yesterday: 15 fires, 46 cells have ended up out of use with the damage. Three call-outs to the national tactical response group. That's in six months, and that's not even half full. It does not work.

Dirprwy Llywydd, I'll conclude because I can see that time is against me. We've been shown statistics that 47 per cent of prisoners reoffend within one year. We are setting people up to fail in the current system. Reoffending rates in Denmark fluctuate at about 27 per cent—20 per cent lower than us. Why? Because prisoners are treated with dignity and as though they have the capacity for reform, whereas ours are locked away. They don't have a system of prisons that are degrading and morally disgraceful.

We overuse the prison for petty and persistent crime. We have the highest incarceration rates in western Europe—it's been mentioned. People are wrongly incarcerated and put into a system at a rate that will overtake capacity. We need to take lessons. Our European neighbours actually can show us the way forward, and it's not increasing prison capacity. It's taking alternative mechanisms.