Brexit

1. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd on 13 March 2018.

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Photo of Mandy Jones Mandy Jones UKIP

(Translated)

2. Will the First Minister make a statement on further devolution to Wales in light of powers that will be transferred back from Brussels following Brexit? OAQ51879

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:35, 13 March 2018

The UK Government language on further devolution or new powers is not quite accurate, because those powers would come to us anyway. Our immediate priority is to protect areas that are already devolved, such as agriculture and environment. And, as has been well documented, we do not agree with any attempt, without agreement, to remove powers from this National Assembly as they come here from Brussels.

Photo of Mandy Jones Mandy Jones UKIP

Thank you for that answer. First Minister, you and I both agree that the powers currently resting with the European Union should come to Wales in their entirety. For this to happen, the UK and Wales must be out of the EU single market. Will you now, finally, outline your Government's position: single market membership or full control over devolved areas?

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:36, 13 March 2018

Well, I'm not sure I've been particularly silent about what the Government's view is. Our view is quite simply this: we need to have full and unfettered access to the single market. There's a debate as to whether you can be a member of the single market or not. What's important is that our businesses are able to access the single market in the same way as they do now. But, surely, we don't want to see barriers put up between ourselves and our single biggest market. So, from our perspective, what we have said is that, where powers would return from Brussels, they come here, naturally—that's what would happen in a constitutional sense—and they shouldn't be diverted down towards Whitehall unless and until there is agreement between the Governments—plural—of the UK to do so.

Photo of David Melding David Melding Conservative

First Minister, after having so closely allied yourself with the Scottish Government, can you assure this Assembly that, when you meet the Prime Minister tomorrow, you will not be deflected from seeking the most constructive option now available to Wales?

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:37, 13 March 2018

Well, as it happens, the Scottish Government and ourselves are as one on this, because the challenge we face is exactly the same. We have offered a way forward. We understand the UK Government's view that there needs to be no disruption to the UK's internal single market—we understand that. There needs to be certainty for businesses—we understand that. The difference is this: we want to create that certainty through agreement and not by imposition. And that's where we need the UK Government to be, to recognise that there is no one Government in the UK that controls Brexit; there are different Governments, who will be representing their different nations. And ourselves and Scotland have been in the same position, and we have jointly put forward suggestions that we think would help create the certainly that everybody wants to see.

Photo of Steffan Lewis Steffan Lewis Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Before we talk about new powers for Wales after leaving the European Union, there’s the small issue of power is being rolled back from Wales in the meantime, something that the Westminster Government has admitted will happen, and they admitted that over the weekend. Now that we have seen the Westminster Government’s amendment to clause 11 of the Bill, and we know that the Westminster Government will have the right to bring new Orders to the Westminster Parliament without the consent of this Assembly, which will have an impact on devolved issues, and those Orders could even become part of UK-wide frameworks for the future, again without the consent of this Parliament. And I noticed this morning that the language of the Government here in Wales has started to soften on these issues, and I would like an assurance from the First Minister that he isn’t about to agree to a compromise that will have a negative impact on the Welsh constitution.

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:38, 13 March 2018

(Translated)

No, that situation wouldn’t be acceptable to us, and I discussed this with Nicola Sturgeon yesterday. We are both in the same place, which is that it’s not adequate that the powers should remain in one place and that we then see those powers used in a way that is not of benefit to Scotland or Wales. Therefore, there is no possibility that we would agree to something that would give any kind of consent or a free hand to the Government in Westminster to amend secondary legislation without so much as a by your leave or permission from Wales or Scotland.