4. Will the First Minister make a statement on the white paper on local government reform? OAQ51890

Well, as I said, when the Member asked a similar question last week, the approach to strengthening local government is under consideration, and the Cabinet Secretary for Local Government and Public Services will make a statement on the way forward in due course.

You mentioned that I'd asked this question last week. When I asked about the u-turn that your Government has made, you said that

'the situation hasn’t changed with regard to the way forward.' 

This suggested to me that you weren't aware of the recent statements made by your Cabinet Secretary Alun Davies, and this is shocking to me, and it suggests to me 1) that you're not taking a great deal of interest in local government, which is the net that safeguards our most vulnerable people, and 2) that there hadn't been any discussion within your Cabinet on the current change of direction. So, can you enlighten us a little further than you've done already on the direction of travel for you as a Government?

Well, as a former councillor, before I came to this place, I know how important local government is and the work that members carry out locally to represent their communities. But may I say, one thing that hasn't changed is that the status quo cannot continue? Secondly, it's vital to ensure that regional collaboration still happens. That has made a huge difference to education, for example, where we've seen the action taken in terms of learners improving very much in past years. But there is an argument, of course, to be had as regards what the way forward should be in the future. We can't stand still, and that is what the debate will be over the next few months, that is, what is the best way forward. And, of course, it's open to Members to give their views on that.

First Minister, the Cabinet Secretary for local government has said that local democracy is all about participation—the usual pearls of wisdom we've come to expect from my friend Alun Davies. Alun Davies has also said that he wants councils to pilot innovative ways of voting that reflect people's busy lives, something that I would certainly agree with in principle. Of course, in practice, when you alter voting systems, it does open up the possibility of greater fraud. So, how are you going to make sure that the new system of local government elections that follows on from these reforms doesn't open the door to a greater amount of fraud that we can't keep track of in the same way that we can with the current voting patterns?

I think that, on the issue of electronic voting, the issue of security is an important one. We don't have a situation in this country where people have to produce ID when they vote, and I hope that that never has to happen in the future. So, when it comes to postal votes and when it comes to people voting in person, I think we have as robust a system as we can get. Now, in principle, I favour the idea of electronic voting, but I'm not convinced that the security yet exists to make sure that that system is robust, and I think that's where we need to go. So, I wouldn't object to electronic voting in the future, but I think the public would need to be reassured, especially in the present day, that there would be no prospect of systems being hacked or, indeed, any prospect of somebody impersonating another voter. That, I think, is where the work needs to be done over the next few years.

First Minister, as you've just said in reply, local government reform is under consultation at this point—or will be under consultation. But the boundary changes for ABMU were premised upon one local authority saying that they wanted a change to suit their services better. Do you think it's now wise to actually go ahead with any changes with that boundary change whilst we await the reconsideration of reform for local authorities, and therefore should it actually now be put on hold whilst the local authority reform is considered?

Well, the consultation has ended. We will look, of course, at the responses to that consultation, and that will form part of our thinking in terms of local government.

First Minister, I'm sure that one thing that every AM in this Chamber would agree on is the need to increase people's engagement in the democratic process and increase turnout at elections. I know that one idea that's been considered as part of the Welsh Government's package of reforms is electronic voting. In framing my supplementary today, I wanted to cite an example where electronic voting had improved turnout. But, actually, looking at the experiences of Norway and Estonia, electronic voting actually had little effect on increasing participation. Instead, it was noted that we need to emphasise why voting is important. What are the First Minister's reflections on this evidence, and how best can we highlight the reasons why political participation is so crucial? 

Yes, it's difficult to know, without looking fully at the evidence, why that situation occurred in Norway and Estonia. I think what's important is to offer people as many methods of voting as is reasonable, to give them as much chance as possible to vote. We have historically, in this country, voted on a Thursday—not always, as the Member for Alyn and Deeside knows. But, for example, other countries vote on the weekend. The reason why we've never had votes on a Sunday is that my grandfather wouldn't have voted on a Sunday, bluntly—Sabbatarianism. I'm not sure we are in a similar position to that now. So, I think we do need to look at whether weekend voting is the way forward. Of course, there are some people who are working on a Saturday or Sunday, but flexibility there, electronic voting, postal voting—it's important, I think, that we look at as many means as possible of enabling people to vote as long as those means are secure.