Thank you. I'm glad that the Member for Swansea East welcomed the general thrust of my approach to these matters in terms of devolving powers to local government structures and bodies across Wales, and decentralising governance in Wales. I'm sure that the Member will be pleased that I do welcome that.

Do you know, the conversation that you've started in that question is exactly the conversation I want to have over the coming months? Because I do not say in this paper, and I do not believe, that there is a single optimum size or shape that fits everywhere in Wales. What is right in Powys isn't necessarily going to be right for the Valleys of south Wales, certainly isn't going to be right for the cities, and certainly wouldn't be right for areas of the north either. So, we don't seek to say here that there is an optimum shape and an optimum size for local government. What we're seeking to do is to create structures to which we can devolve additional powers and with which we can protect the roles and jobs of public service workers, so that we can deliver excellence in public services and ensure and hard-wire democratic accountability and democratic decision making within those structures, as close to the citizen as possible.

Now, how you get close to the citizen will be different in different places. I accept that, and I accept that some councils will always be larger, and others smaller than some other authorities. I accept that, and that is the nature of the country in which we live. I don't want to deliver uniformity across Wales but I do believe that we need a level of consistency in services and a consistency in democratic accountability, and a consistency in how we're able to manage our affairs. Mike Hedges and I were both in school in 1973—I suspect different schools, but we were both in school—and we were both born in and have lived in different local authority areas, and I accept that there's been a search for the right shape and the right size for authorities, and we haven't, in the past, always got those things right. That is why I start this conversation today in a way that seeks to stimulate debate and not to close down debate. I know, on occasions like this, in statements like this, Members will ask questions and they will seek definite and precise answers, but I think every so often it is right and proper that a Minister starts a debate and doesn't seek to conclude the debate in the same speech.