5. Debate: The General Principles of the Public Services Ombudsman (Wales) Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:56 pm on 21 March 2018.

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Photo of Mick Antoniw Mick Antoniw Labour 3:56, 21 March 2018

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. You will be very, very pleased to know that we reported on this Bill on 9 March and we made only one recommendation to the Member in charge and, as such, my contribution will be comparatively short.

With regard to the need for the Bill, we welcome the approach adopted by the Member in charge in providing a Bill that is a consolidated piece of legislation, and we believe it represents the best-practice approach our predecessor committee promoted in its report, 'Making Laws in Wales'. It will enable legislation of considerable importance in Wales to be available bilingually. The benefits of this to Welsh citizens should not be underestimated.

As with our scrutiny of all Bills, we considered the balance between what is on the face of the Bill and what is left to subordinate legislation. In this regard we are content with the Bill. In relation to the issue of how the ombudsman and the Children’s Commissioner for Wales work together, we agree with the Member in charge and the Cabinet Secretary for Finance that the detail should be set out on the face of the Bill. We trust the Member in charge will table the necessary amendments.

Turning now to Henry VIII powers, we and our predecessor committee have regularly and robustly scrutinised the use of Henry VIII powers. Whilst the use of such powers in this Bill are significant in number, we note that they are narrow in scope. We further note that six of the nine Henry VIII powers involve consultation. For that reason, we are content with their use in this Bill. As the committee with responsibility for scrutinising subordinate legislation, we will be able to monitor carefully the use of these powers by the Welsh Ministers, should the Bill become law.

My final remarks relate to section 78 of the Bill. Section 78(1) allows the Welsh Ministers by regulation to make

'(a) such consequential, incidental or supplemental provision, and

'(b) such transitory, transitional or saving provision,

'as they think necessary or expedient'.

Consistently, our view has been that the Welsh Government should adopt a more targeted approach rather than taking the widest powers available to them. This committee should be no exception. Our particular concern relates to the words 'necessary or expedient'. In our view, the word 'necessary' would be sufficient. Our only recommendation suggests the Member in charge tables an amendment to the Bill to remove the words 'or expedient' from section 78(1).

Now, I thank the Member for his formal response to our report and the comments that he's actually made just now. I note that he believes the power to make provision as is necessary under section 78 will be sufficient and, for that reason, 'expedient' could be removed. I therefore welcome his commitment to raise this issue with the Welsh Ministers in the coming weeks.

We note that the Cabinet Secretary is considering tabling an amendment to clarify that the section 78 power extends to amending primary legislation. Should an amendment be tabled, it is, of course, our view that, as a Henry VIII power, it should be subject to the affirmative procedure. Thank you.