Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:27 pm on 21 March 2018.
Can I just say, on some of the contributions to the debate that, obviously, I warmly welcome those Members who support the Bill, and the Finance Committee will want to take on board all the comments that have been made, but I'm particularly struck, I think, by comments from people such as Mike Hedges and Janet Finch-Saunders and behind me here with Gareth Bennett—everyone who's interacted with the ombudsman on behalf of their constituents and has actually seen the work that the ombudsman does, sometimes in solving problems, sometimes being unable to solve the problem but identifying the problem that's there.
The new powers in this Bill actually allow the ombudsman to sometimes do some of the work—. Systematic failure I think was mentioned by Gareth Bennett—problems that have been, for a long period of time, mentioned by Janet Finch-Saunders. These powers are designed to bring together groups or individuals to overcome those, and it's very much centred on the citizen. They're very much centred around the powers that the ombudsman needs to exercise, not as an ombudsman because he's a little dictator, but as an ombudsman on behalf of all of us and on behalf of all our citizens as well. I think many of us who've come across the ombudsman—. I've had problems solved by the ombudsman; I've had problems that the ombudsman has told me that he can't solve. Well, you know, there is something wrong sometimes with public services in Wales and we need to recognise that, but some of the powers in the Bill around complaints procedures going forward will hopefully address some of those long-standing failures. I very much welcome, therefore, those comments from Members. Nick Ramsay as well was supportive of that and underlined the fact that access needed to be there for justice and the access in these powers does that.
I recognise that one Member does not support this Bill—or at least one Member has publicly stated that he does not support the Bill, and he was, of course, subject to an adverse report via the ombudsman procedure himself. In answer to Tony Benn's question, of course, the ombudsman is answerable to this Assembly. A vote in this Assembly can dismiss the ombudsman. It needs to be put on record that the ombudsman is not without confines to his powers. And we do trust the ombudsman. There is a lot of trust that has to be invested in an ombudsman, because he—it is currently a he—will exercise great powers on our behalf, and we are suggesting that he has further powers. However, the powers that we are suggesting are further powers in the field of defending the citizen. They do not in any way interfere with the procedure that was set out by Neil McEvoy, which is regarding complaints regarding local councillors. These powers are not related to that whatsoever, and those powers are already contained, of course, in the 2005 Act passed by the House of Commons.
So, in taking this Bill forward, I hope people will come to the conclusion that we can use the ombudsman to improve public services in Wales when we identify failures that are systematic or running over a period of time; we can use the ombudsman to help our individual citizen when he or she has suffered some injustice because of a failure by public authorities. None of these powers we want to see used because all of us want to see perfect public authorities in Wales and a perfect administration of natural justice in Wales—it doesn't always happen. But when we do see the exercise of powers by the ombudsman, what we want to see, in turn, from public authorities in Wales is that they listen to what the ombudsman has to say, think about the exercise of their own relationships and administration, think about what they can learn from elsewhere in the United Kingdom, or even internationally, think of what the ombudsman can help them to achieve, and, of course, improve their own behaviour as a result of that. And I regret that not everyone has learnt that lesson.