The next item on our agenda this afternoon is the Member debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv). It's on community transport, and I call on Mark Isherwood to move the motion.

Motion NDM6666 Mark Isherwood, Dai Lloyd, Adam Price

Supported by Suzy Davies

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Notes that community transport services play a vital role in our communities, providing transport for people who face barriers to accessing public and private transport, supporting people to live independently and access vital services, while also mitigating issues around loneliness and isolation.

2. Notes the concern about the current Department for Transport consultation on community transport permits (Section 19/22) and the potential impact of this on services in Wales.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) work in partnership with the community transport sector and public bodies to ensure the sector can continue in its unique role providing bespoke transport options for vulnerable people, to ensure access to services while the consultation process is underway;

b) develop contingency plans to mitigate any impact on transport provision through minibus services delivered through Section 19 and 22 permits; 

c) publish a clear strategy which recognises the cross-cutting aspect of community transport provision across Welsh Government departments in delivering the Welsh Government’s strategic aims;

d) provide much needed stability for the sector by moving toward three year funding agreements to allow organisations to develop and take forward plans, to ensure greater sustainability and a more strategic approach to service provision; and

e) ensure engagement with relevant partners and stakeholders across Wales to inform the Welsh Government’s own response to the consultation, and ensure understanding in the sector of the Welsh Government’s position.

Motion moved.

Diolch. Community transport is about providing flexible and accessible community-led solutions in response to unmet local transport needs, and often represents the only means of transport for many vulnerable and isolated people. Significant user groups are older people and disabled people, with a majority of services and projects working in rural areas, but, of course, not exclusively in rural areas.

Using everything from minibuses to mopeds, typical services include voluntary car schemes, community bus services, school transport, hospital transport, dial-a-ride, wheels to work, and group-hire services. Most services are demand responsive, taking people from door to door, but a growing number are offering scheduled services along fixed routes where conventional bus services are not available. Services are always run for a social purpose and for a community benefit, and never for a profit, ensuring a broader range of transport needs can be met.

The Community Transport Association in Wales represents 100 organisations, many of which are small charities, and all of which provide transport services that fulfil a social purpose and community benefits. One hundred and forty thousand individuals and 3,500 groups are registered to use community transport in Wales. Services deliver approximately 2 million passenger journeys each year, travelling 6 million miles. The sector is predominantly volunteer led, with nearly 2,000 volunteers giving their time freely to ensure that services can be delivered—a contribution worth millions to the Welsh economy. These vital services help to reduce loneliness and isolation, ensuring that people can access hospitals, GP surgeries, social events, leisure facilities, places of employment, shops and much more. However, despite the obvious positive contribution that community transport makes in Wales, the sector currently faces a number of threats.

The responsibility for community transport is distributed across all levels of Government, from EU regulations to UK Government responsibility over permits and licensing, to Welsh Government responsibility over how community transport operates in Wales, to local authorities funding and framing the use of community transport locally. It's therefore vital that all levels of Government together seek to find a solution to the current problems, seek to mitigate the short-term effects on our communities, and look to develop a strong and sustainable long-term future for community transport in Wales.

At a devolved level, the Community Transport Association has identified three key issues: that funding settlements do not enable long-term planning; that their members are not remunerated cross departmentally for the work they do, and that one-off capital funding may be necessary to support growth.

Whilst welcoming the uplift in concessionary fare reimbursement rates for community transport, they've also called for the formula to be reviewed for community transport operators. The reimbursement rate remains less than 100 per cent, and, while commercial operators can make that back elsewhere, community transport permit restrictions mean that they're unable to recover losses from those journeys. Short-term funding cycles mean that operators are unable to plan for the future and develop sustainably. Late funding decisions can lead to permanent losses, removing vital expertise from the sector.

The Welsh Government provides funding directly to transport operators through the bus services support grant, administered on an annual basis by local authorities. The amount allocated to community transport operators varies between local authorities. For example, the Welsh Government suggested that the Vale of Glamorgan Council set a target of £81,160 for spending on community transport last year, but they only contributed £28,200. The combination of annualised funding and lack of certainty of funding amounts makes forward planning extremely difficult, and it's therefore impossible for them to develop meaningful three to five-year business plans. It is particularly problematic when organisations wish to make capital investments in either vehicles or their organisational infrastructure.

Community transport operators are increasingly providing health and social care services, taking pressure off public sector bodies and allowing people to live independently for longer. However, few operators receive financial recognition for this, relying on volunteers to go the extra mile to ensure that individuals have the support they need. Finding and retaining volunteers is already a challenge, especially as people are working later and often have additional responsibilities. Budgets are therefore needed that support cross-departmental working in order to develop innovative solutions that enable the sector to deliver the activities so obviously required.

Operating community transport is more expensive than an average charitable enterprise, and, despite fundraising, some operators will be unable to raise capital for future investment, compromising the development of their services. For example, many converted their vehicles to diesel when told that that was the right thing to do, and replacing these with wheelchair-adapted electric or hybrid vehicles will be costly. A well-targeted capital funding programme could therefore drive innovative projects, extend the scope and reach of community transport operators throughout Wales, and save money for the statutory sector.

In 2015, the European Commission told the UK Government to address how its directives on passenger transport operator licensing were interpreted into UK law. This focused on the rules that operators should follow when fulfilling local authority contracts and how derogations from the regulations apply. Alongside this, there's been a campaign from a small but noisy group of commercial operators to force a settlement through threats of legal challenges to community transport operators, local authorities and the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency. In consequence, the UK Government is currently consulting on plans to change how EU rules for regulating passenger transport services apply in the UK.

Its consultation document states that it remains committed to supporting the sector, but that concerns have been raised that some community transport operators that use permits are competing with commercial operators, which, quote, is not allowed by EU law. The proposed changes would mean that, under section 19 and 22, permits used by community transport operators to deliver minibus services and community bus services, many organisations will only be able to engage in competitive tendering for public service contracts, such as social care contracts and school contracts, if they obtain a public service vehicle operators licence, unless there's been no competition for any of these services from holders of PSV operator licences. This is costly and requires that the organisation has a number of paid roles with professional qualifications.

During my own most recent visits to community transport operators in north Wales, they emphasised that most operators in Wales are small, unlike some of the giants in England, and that the proposals now threaten the continuation of community transport here. Further, whilst the consultation is still under way, the EU interpretation that community transport in the UK is in breach of its rules is already being treated in some cases, at local level in Wales, as though it's already in force.

The UK Department for Transport has announced a transition fund of £250,000 and that they're exploring what further assistance they can give, but it's unclear if a proportion of this will be reserved for Wales, and it's unlikely to be enough to cover transition costs for all organisations affected.

Local authorities have said that there'll be a shortage of accessible minibuses if they're unable to work with community transport to deliver services, impacting on passengers who need them most. The older people's commissioner has said that community transport makes a significant contribution to older people's health and well-being, helping them to maintain their independence for longer and participate in community life, plugging the gaps in the public transport network that are particularly important for older people and those living in isolated communities and rural areas.

We therefore call on the Welsh Government to work in partnership with the community transport sector and public bodies to ensure the sector can continue in its unique role, providing bespoke transport options for vulnerable people to ensure access to services while the consultation process is under way; to develop contingency plans to mitigate any impact on transport provision through minibus services delivered through section 19 and 22 permits; to publish a clear strategy that recognises the cross-cutting aspect of community transport provision across Welsh Government departments in delivering the Welsh Government's strategic aims; to provide much-needed stability for the sector by moving towards three-year funding arrangements to allow organisations to develop and take forward plans to ensure greater sustainability and a more strategic approach to service provision; and to ensure engagement with relevant partners and stakeholders across Wales to inform the Welsh Government's own response to the UK Government consultation and ensure understanding in the sector of the Welsh Government's position.

Evidence has shown that community transport provides £3 value for every £1 spent on it. Community transport offers an invaluable service for those who face particular barriers to accessing transport for whatever reason. Whilst it's a very resilient sector, the individuals and organisations who work within it must be valued and supported. Despite the challenges, Community Transport Association Wales believes there is an opportunity for organisations and authorities in Wales to work together to ensure continued services for our communities. Let us justify their belief. Diolch.

I will be supporting the motion before us today on community transport, which has been tabled by individual Members, and I'm very grateful for the opportunity to speak to it. I don't intend to rehearse the entire motion, but I do want to emphasise the opening point: 

'that the National Assembly for Wales

'1. Notes that community transport services play a vital role in our communities, providing transport for people who face barriers to accessing public and private transport, supporting people to live independently and access vital services, while also mitigating issues around loneliness and isolation.'

Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire is a rural community and encompasses a population that has areas of significant deprivation and a population that is significantly older than the Welsh average. Without community transport, so many of my constituents would struggle to access medical appointments, struggle to get their shopping done and struggle to engage with friends and family. I absolutely recognise the innovative and collaborative thinking that my local community transport providers offer, and I would ask that the Welsh Government recognise the vital role that they play.

I have three key areas I want to highlight today. Firstly, that value to our communities. There is a recognition that loneliness and isolation is not only a great social ill, but also on the increase. Communities are more fractured, families more disparate, and people, older people in particular, can be left behind. We have those who have never had strong support networks and those whose networks have dissolved with the passage of time. For many of these people, the lifeline that is community transport really is their only point of contact with the world and is their only enabler.

For example, in Pembrokeshire, Country Cars runs a service that not only relies on the use of volunteers' cars, but also has funded and run successful vehicles able to take a wheelchair user and their partner or carer, like the terminally ill gentleman whose bucket list consisted of desperately wanting to see his grandson play cricket—just down the road, but he had no other way to get there; or the isolated, severely disabled young man who was able to borrow one of the accessible cars for the weekend and went, with his two carers, to Swansea to see a favourite band and have the chance to be like young people throughout the country.

Another outstanding initiative funded by the National Lottery is Bus Buddies, a system where people are able to not only call a bus to their door to facilitate their ability to get out and about, but can have someone with them. But, of course, the sad reality is that for a substantial number of people, the driver who drops them off on a Friday will be the last person they see until that driver reappears the following Tuesday. Nobody—absolutely nobody—knocks on a great many doors, which is a sad indictment of our society, and why we should be so very grateful to the volunteers of organisations such as Bus Buddies or the Bloomfield centre dial-a-ride, or County Cars.

The second area I would like to highlight are the reasons as to why we've become so very reliant on this band of voluntary organisations, and the enormous pressures they find themselves under. Cabinet Secretary, there are three principal strategic documents that the Welsh Government have used to set out transport and community policies: 'Prosperity for All', the new economic action plan and the Welsh Government budget. And, to be frank, Cabinet Secretary, I find them to be incoherent, uncoordinated, and divorced from the front-line, day-to-day reality we see on the ground. 

In the first of these, the budget document, Welsh Labour has initiated over £100 million-worth of cuts. Welsh Labour have comprehensively failed to build a comprehensive public transport system. Congestion on our roads is crippling our economy. The rail network is staggering under 15 years of Welsh Labour mismanagement of the rail franchise, and bus services have been completely decimated over the past decade. Cumulatively, these policy and delivery failings have created horrendous and unfair pressure on community-based transport services. Community transport has also had to step up to the plate because the number of registered bus services operating in Wales has decreased dramatically in recent years. A total of 53 bus services were reduced, altered or withdrawn in 2015-16 alone. We're all concerned about the potential impacts the Department of Transport outcomes might have on the consultation, which is why, Cabinet Secretary, I'll be interested to hear what contingency plans you might have to mitigate any impact on transport provision through minibus services.

My final and very quick area of concern, Deputy Presiding Officer, is the sustainability of these worthwhile services, given that there's a diminishing pool of volunteers and an ever-increasing demand for services. People are working later in life, they have more pulls on their time, and yet there's an increasing demand for community transport services because of the failures of Welsh Government. And I would be interested to know, Cabinet Secretary, how you intend to address those failures.

I'm pleased to take part in this debate, and I'd like to pay tribute to the voluntary community transport schemes that serve my constituency, Dinas Powys Voluntary Concern—DPVC—and Eastvale Community Transport, which also serves Vaughan Gething's constituency. The latter is a small charity, founded in 1986, based in Penarth, serving the community in the eastern Vale bounded by Penarth and Barry by providing accessible transport in two wheelchair-friendly, 12-seater minibuses with volunteer drivers. Dinas Powys Voluntary Concern provides weekly minibus transport to local supermarkets, to various regular social activities, and for a weekly luncheon club and to a church service. DPVC also works closely with the Vale of Glamorgan Council around the Greenlinks service, which had support from European funding. Greenlinks is supported by the Vale council, working in partnership with DPVC, using a dedicated Volkswagen Caddy with wheelchair adaptations, which takes elderly patients to and from the new Dinas Powys medical centre. Both DPVC and Eastvale Community Transport are models of voluntary commitment, serving local communities in my constituency. They provide vital services for elderly people. They break down isolation—that's already been said in opening remarks. They break down that isolation for those who use the services, but they provide a rewarding role for experienced volunteer drivers. Dinas Powys Voluntary Concern says the majority of its volunteer drivers are retired—many are over the age of 70—which means that there is a need to renew D1 licences, with medicals, et cetera, at regular intervals. They are concerned about the future recruitment of volunteers who are eligible to drive minibuses, as many will not have the required D1 entitlement on their driving licences. Both these organisations would like section 19 permits to remain unchanged, so that the charities can continue to provide the transport services that are currently provided and have the flexibility to adapt to changing needs within the community. 

And, finally, both organisations comment on the insecurity of funding, the short-term nature of funding, and raise concerns that any changes to the conditions of section 19 licences, such as requiring special qualifications, could add to costs and could potentially lead to the closure of the valuable and unique services they provide. What is important, I think, is that—. I'm sure the Cabinet Secretary, in responding to this, will consider the evidence from the community transport sector in this debate, particularly if the Welsh Government is responding to the Department for Transport consultation on community transport permits. But I also recognise and know that the Welsh Government is very supportive of the community transport sector and the unique role it plays as part of an accessible transport service, and I'm very glad to take part in this important debate today.

I will begin by confirming that UKIP will be supporting this motion today. You will, of course, not be surprised that I wish to point out that this debacle is the result of European Community regulation 1071/2009, which is being imposed on the UK and takes no account that community transport is an almost unique British solution to plugging gaps in our commercial transport provision. The Department for Transport interpreted the regulation in such a way as they saw the term 'not for profit' and 'non-commercial' as one and the same. This interpretation has been in force since 1985 and has been the regime under which community transport has been operated. European Union rules do not make this distinction, and herein lies the severe problems facing our CT operators.

I'm sure that all in this Chamber will acknowledge the huge positive impact that community transport has on many communities and people, particularly those with special needs, which include the elderly, the isolated and the disabled, as well as providing much-needed transport for many social activities, including sporting occasions. Any regulation that puts financial or strategic pressure on the community transport operators is an unwelcome intervention.

The community transport fraternity has put in place its own industry standards, and there is no evidence to suggest that it is any less safe than ordinary commercial operations. Indeed, there is much evidence to show that they go further than some commercial operations with regard to training staff, for instance, on the use of disability equipment and specific interaction with disabled people.

If the Department for Transport is forced to adopt these EU regulations, CT operators will be faced with considerable costs to implement these measures, particularly in the short term. Therefore, it is absolutely imperative that both the Department for Transport and/or the Welsh Government provide the funds for this transition period. The consequences of not providing this funding could be catastrophic for community transport operators, with many of their services closing. As has been said, data shows there is a £3 return for every £1 invested in CT. It would be unthinkable that this funding would not be made available.

Lastly, the uncertainty that now exists with regard to regulation and funding is already affecting community transport operators with regard to retaining staff and long-term strategy. We call upon the Department for Transport and on the Welsh Government to commit to funding any operational changes.

I particularly wanted to contribute to this debate, having been a volunteer with two community charities who provided or worked with community transport in rural areas. The experiences that I had completely reinforce what other Members have already said today about the purpose and outcomes of often co-productive community transport organisations. As we’ll know from examples from our own constituencies and regions, some of those organisations go beyond being a straightforward on-call service and become very proactive in their communities in meeting the challenges of loneliness and isolation.

One of the organisations I was involved with worked directly with volunteer drivers using their own cars. In that one case, we came across resistance to our work from a local taxi firm, which complained that our drivers were undercutting them and depriving them of business. I suspect Kirsty Williams knows what I'm talking about here. It’s pretty similar, I think, to the argument that commercial transport companies are running in order to prompt the review of the permits granted under section 19 and section 22 of the Transport Act 1985. You can see why they make the case: they are subject to more restrictions, and they have to pay their workforce. But, in my view, it is a completely false argument, and one that gets particularly complicated where a community transport organisation is asked by stranded residents basically to fill a gap left when a service is dropped by a commercial operator because it's unprofitable. That is a position in which DANSA, which is operating in the west of my region and in the Amman valley, effectively finds itself in today. To quote them, the removal of the sections 19 and 22 permitting regime would be 'catastrophic'.

Section 22 permits are issued to bodies concerned for the social and welfare needs of one or more communities. If those communities are abandoned by commercial operators, the needs of that community do not disappear overnight. In fact, I would argue that the social and welfare needs of those communities are likely to increase if people are stuck in their village, because taxis are expensive and you only use them when you absolutely have to. 

We’ve already heard from other Members how community transport can help tackle loneliness and isolation. DANSA is a particularly good example of such an organisation, which proactively arranges trips and events for older or other vulnerable people who are at risk of just that. So, they are not just a reactive, on-call bus service. This is why I’d like Welsh Government—. I appreciate that it's the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport responding to this, but this isn't just a debate about transport competition, which is how it's been presented to the Department for Transport. As the Bridgend council consultation on buses is already revealing, community transport can’t always fill those gaps anyway. And, as we argued with that Powys taxi firm, we are talking about passengers who would, effectively, be stuck if not for community transport, sometimes just for reasons of cost.

Members may have been reminded by the NHS Confederation that community transport operators can be contracted by the ambulance trust to provide non-emergency trips to and from hospital. This can be a very useful arrangement, and a good core income stream for many community transport providers. To be honest, I cannot see the philosophical difference between this and a local authority contracting community transport to serve difficult-to-reach communities. Even so, particularly in rural areas, the car journeys can be quite long between home and hospital, and made longer by the fact that the car or, sometimes, the bus will be picking up and dropping off other patients as part of the run.

I remember a particular case of three women travelling from rural Brecknock to Velindre hospital. Their cancer treatments only took a few minutes, but they spent a considerable part of the day stuck in a car, in the company of strangers, feeling pretty lousy, and travelling from house to house collecting the carload. For those women, they were basically told that this was the service that the state could provide for them, albeit in a car not in an ambulance. It wasn't really what I would consider to be person-centred. Direct access to community cars would have given those women—and I think they could have had it, actually—the chance to make the journey alone, even if they had to a pay a modest contribution towards the trip. This is where organisations like the Pontarddulais and district community car scheme come into their own: cheaper than a taxi and run by volunteers who perhaps have the time to respond to a passenger's needs without watching the clock, which, unfortunately, taxi drivers do have to consider.

Three-year funding rounds would be a huge help to organisations, there’s no doubt about that. But I urge you, Cabinet Secretary, to look at point 3(c) of the motion in particular, which is why I want you to consider this as a debate about the well-being of present and future generations and not just about transport. As we heard from Mark Isherwood and Angela Burns, the decisions of Welsh Government have affected the provision of public transport. But it's not just about Welsh Government and being cross-sector within Government departments, although they obviously need to sit up and take notice. It's about the public, private and third sectors—society itself—recognising that mobility, connectivity if you like, creates choices and freedoms to exercise those choices. So, funding that connectivity is a responsibility that all need to share, and it's not just for a silo departmental budget.

Can I thank very much the Members that have brought forward this debate today? I certainly will be supporting the motion. The motion has my full support. Now, the Powys Association for Voluntary Organisations, or PAVO as they are known for short, have been raising concerns with me about the current threats that threaten the continuation of community transport in Powys. I thank them very much for their providing me with a very comprehensive briefing and report on this issue, which I shall refer briefly to today in my contribution. 

I think Members will understand that Powys's geography and sparse population and relatively limited public transport infrastructure mean that community transport, of course, provides an absolutely crucial lifeline to vulnerable residents who would not otherwise be able to access the services and opportunities that matter to them. Other Members have mentioned them in their contributions. Now, the Powys Association of Voluntary Organisations provides support themselves for a range of community transport schemes operating across Powys. There are Dial-a-Ride operations, school contracts, community car schemes, taxi card schemes and minibus hire for third-party sectors. Certainly, Dial-a-Ride as well—a number of trustees operating Dial-a-Ride services have been in contact with me with a range of concerns for some time.

I think all Members have mentioned—and I've listened to every Member that has spoken so far in this debate today—that it seems that the single largest area of activity and journeys with regard to community transport providers is associated with social care and health needs. In Powys itself, this financial year, groups in Powys drove over 800,000 miles for 8,000 people in Powys and delivered 108,000 single passenger journeys. Now, over 6,000 of these people are over 60, and 1,800 have a disability. I point this out, of course, to demonstrate the importance of community transport to people in my rural constituency who face barriers in accessing services with very limited private transport. Without these services, of course, not only is it estimated that half of the 8,000 passengers in Powys would lose their transport, but the financial consequences for the local authority and the health board would be significant. It's estimated that they would have to spend around just under £800,000 to cover the same health and social services currently serviced by community transport operators.

As the motion notes, there is real concern about the proposals contained within the Department for Transport consultation on community transport permits, which would mean that any service in receipt of payment in exchange for the transport provided, whether that be fares or grants or even lunch for the driver, would be considered commercially and subject to new licensing arrangements. This, of course, would have significant costs with regard to running services, limit the availability of community transport services to deliver contracted services for local authorities, and affect some aspects of licensing affecting the group hire of minibuses.

I'm just going to read a little bit from the report that PAVO provided to me. There are nine community transport organisations providing services in Powys. Now, as it stands, according to the Powys report, having discussed this issue with each of the nine providers, five would be forced to close altogether, two might continue to operate under the new requirements but would be forced to only operate within the commercial market and, as such, they might still close, and two currently use vehicles with under nine seats and would therefore not be affected by the change. They go on to say that because of the legal nature of licensing arrangements, it is anticipated that these community transport schemes would be obliged to cease, affecting services immediately upon confirmation or enforcement of the new licensing requirements.

The motion today calls on the Welsh Government to work in partnership with these groups and provide a clear strategy to recognise the cross-cutting aspects of community transport provision across Welsh Government departments, but I very much hope that the Cabinet Secretary will be able to respond positively to today's debate in a way that provides some stability for the groups that I and others have mentioned.

I now call the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport, Ken Skates.

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'd like to begin by thanking Members for their contribution today to an important debate about a vital service for many, many communities in Wales.

I recognise that the community transport permit regime is a non-devolved matter and that it will continue to be a matter reserved to the UK Government, even after commencement of the Wales Act, but I fully agree with the first paragraph of the motion that we are debating today. Community transport services play a vital role, providing transport for people who face barriers to accessing public transport—and, indeed, private transport—supporting people to live independently and to access vital services. As many Members have observed, community transport also plays a crucial role in mitigating issues around loneliness and isolation, particularly in our most rural areas. As we begin work on the new national transport strategy and our plans for reforming the way we plan and deliver local bus transport services in the long term, I am convinced that community transport should and will make a vital contribution to an integrated public transport network in the future.

I'm pleased to say that it remains my intention to set out our detailed proposals for reforming how we plan and deliver local bus services in the near future, and as part of those proposals I'll be keen to ensure that community transport providers will be able to bid for public sector contracts to provide essential public services. The motion calls for the Welsh Government to take action in support of the community transport sector in Wales, and I'm pleased to report to Members that action is taking place. We have been working in partnership with the community transport sector for many years, and we will continue to do so. Core funding has been provided to the Community Transport Association for a number of years to support and develop the sector, and this funding will be maintained in 2018-19. Yes, the UK Government announced last month additional funding of £250,000 to provide advice and support for operators who may need to apply for public service vehicle operator licences, but Mark Isherwood is right that this is a relatively tiny sum of money and we need clarity about how much Wales can expect to receive.

Working together with the sector in Wales, we also need to consider very carefully the potential impact of any changes the UK Government has proposed to the community transport permit regime. The public service operator regime is more rigorous than the permit regime, and it's right that this should be the case. But simply forcing operators to incur these potential additional costs when the benefits to passengers are negligible is not a viable solution. Operators must be permitted to operate services to passengers under the most appropriate licensing regime.

Now that we are in a position to assess the potential impact of the UK Government's proposals for the community transport permit regime, we are working with the CTA in Wales to develop contingency plans to mitigate any potentially negative impact on services provided under the community transport permit regime. One of the key themes emerging from the bus summit that I hosted in Wrexham last year was the need for a more stable funding agreement between the Welsh Government, the public sector and the bus industry. I think this has been well recognised since the summit, and in the challenging financial climate that persists for the public sector, I've continued to prioritise the funding provided for local bus services. I've maintained the level of support for the bus services support grant at £25 million for a fifth year, and my guidance to local authorities states that not less than 5 per cent of this funding should be set aside to support community transport in their local areas. Our indicative budget for the next two years thereafter further maintains this budget commitment, so we are providing the funding stability needed to plan and deliver our local bus services.

I have to say I was, though, astonished to hear some comments from the Conservatives that would suggest that this Government is to blame for the fragility of local bus services and for creaking rail infrastructure. The fact is that, firstly, bus services are vulnerable due to the disaster of deregulation by a Conservative Government in the mid 1980s, and secondly, rail structure is creaking because of dreadful underfunding of the Welsh route network because of decisions by the Department for Transport in the current control period, where barely more than 1 per cent of funding has been allocated for the Wales route, in spite of the fact that it contains around 10 per cent of track.

But rather than get dragged down into a pointless political point-scoring exercise, I wish to instead pay tribute to the community transport sector for keeping this item right at the top of the transport agenda. It's disappointing that continued use of the community transport regime in Britain has been the subject of so much uncertainty. I'm sure every Member in this Chamber would agree. I also agree with the findings of the House of Commons Transport Committee that, however well intentioned, some of the comments included in the Department for Transport's letter of 31 July last year could be deemed to be ill-judged. The public consultation that has subsequently been published goes some way to alleviate some of the concerns across the sector, and whilst we can welcome the commitment to retain the community transport permit regime, there is still work to be done to persuade the UK Government that some of the changes that have been proposed remain a deep cause for concern. 

One such example, Deputy Presiding Officer, is the restriction on permit operators being able to bid for public service contracts—only if public service operators have declined to do so. In some areas, competition from community transport providers may be the only competition for public sector contracts. Deputy Presiding Officer, I'll be sharing my views and that of the sector in Wales with the Department for Transport as part of this consultation, and given its importance to the provision of local bus services to some of the most vulnerable people and communities in Wales, it's my intention to share this information and my formal response with Members of the National Assembly.

Thank you very much. Can I now call on Dai Lloyd to reply to the debate?

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. It’s a pleasure to draw this debate to a close. I’m pleased to have given a platform for community transport as well. It’s not very often that we discuss this issue, so I’m very pleased to be able to speak on it. I congratulate my fellow Members on their contributions, because what I’m doing now is summarising what people have said, but it’s important to note that the transport that we have—that’s the glue that holds our communities together.

Russell George, amongst others, talked about the contribution to the health service and the care service, and from my background as a GP in the Swansea area, I know about the contribution that voluntary community transport makes, or many of our patients wouldn’t be able to come and see us in our surgeries, not to mention going to our hospitals. So, as we’re all aware, there is a great deal of pressure on the ambulance service, and as has been said this afternoon, there are contracts between the ambulance service and community transport to enable that vital service to help our ambulance services. We all know about the pressure that’s on our ambulances. Now, community transport takes thousands of patients to appointments in our hospitals and to our GP surgeries every day of the week. That contribution is vital and, as a number have said, there are no profiteers; it’s voluntary, it’s informal very often, and that’s the strength of community transport. It's entirely vital.

Thank you to Mark Isherwood for opening the debate and for revealing and explaining the issue and discussing the challenge in terms of funding and the challenge with regard to the new licensing system as well. Those are the two main challenges. Angela Burns talked about the same issues, and I’m very pleased that Jane Hutt has been able to speak in this debate as well from her experience, and also David Rowlands and Suzy Davies as well as Russell George, as I already said. I’m very pleased to acknowledge the response of the Cabinet Secretary, who is supportive of the proposal in the motion, which deserves our unanimous agreement and a vote in favour this afternoon. This is a vitally important area: there is a vital contribution that community transport makes. There is pressure and there’s uncertainty now, but our health service and our care services are very dependent on community transport. Yes, it’s voluntary, but it’s crucial.

As the inquiry that we as a health committee undertook into loneliness and isolation discovered, it’s vitally important in terms of transport to keep people from being isolated or feeling lonely. As others have said, very often, public transport stops in the evenings and on weekends and that’s where this glue of community transport comes into its own; it fills the gap where there is no other transport available. And for those people who volunteer to be drivers, very often, for these charities, for community transport groups—it’s of benefit to those people as well to help their own personal development. And very often, they look for something to tackle their own personal loneliness and isolation, and they volunteer for this community transport. So, it’s a win-win situation, and so it deserves our wholehearted support.

We heard the figures from Mark Isherwood in opening: those millions of journeys and millions of miles travelled every year by patients and others who have to get to their destinations, and the vital contribution that community transport makes. It is a comprehensive motion and it deserves all of our support. Thank you very much.

Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36. 

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.