Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:10 pm on 17 April 2018.
Darren, thank you very much indeed. Several points there, but can I just begin by welcoming your broad support for this? As you rightly say, versions of childcare, early education offers, appeared in most manifestos of some sort, with variations on a theme, differently cut and spliced. But it is good that we are now at this point where, with the support of this house around this Bill, we can move to a position where we can see a full roll-out by 2020 of a national Welsh childcare scheme that involves those elements as well—not simply of childcare, but also of that educated, pedagogic influence as well. So, thank you for the support.
To come to one of the main themes of your points there, this is not the universal offer. In fact, there are those who have lobbied for a far more universal offer, not least among those—and I've discussed this with her—is the children's commissioner, but there are others as well. But this isn't that offer; this is very much the offer that has come directly from the manifesto, specifically focused at working parents as described within the Bill and within the parameters that will flow within the regulations. So, I wouldn't attempt at any point during this, including as it progresses with the will of Assembly Members into committee, to pretend this is anything other than what it is. To try and develop something that is a more universal offer will be for another day, and there will be plenty of opportunities to explore that, I am sure. But this actually is quite a focused technical Bill that will allow us to deliver the offer as it's currently framed. However, it does have some flexibility within it, which is quite interesting as we progress into committee, not to do the universal offer, but to look at some of those constituent groups out there in the child minding, childcare sorority and fraternity who are interested in being a part of this. But I think one thing we have to be crystal clear on is that this is not meant in any way to be some form of alternative subsidy into families who are looking after their own children—this is for registered and licensed child minders and childcare facilities, registered and licensed. So, we are having many others say, 'Well, can we not also benefit?' The focus for this is not purely on simply the child minding; this is on the wider benefits for those children within it and how this integrates. And this is part of the pilot—how this integrates also with things like the foundation years offer and so on. So, we can explore this in committee.
You mentioned the issues of capacity and the costings. We're still confident, but part of the piloting, by the way, is in order to actually help us refine where we think we're going with the costings, based on elements of take-up, et cetera, et cetera. So, we are refining that, but we still have full confidence that the costings we initially put forward are within the scope of what we can deliver by 2020 for the full roll-out. And similarly, in terms of capacity, it's quite fascinating that within the different types of childcare, child minding capacity, we are discovering that it's quite different geographically. There are—particularly looking to my right here—within parts of the south Wales Valleys many who are licensed child minders who are looking after their own grandchildren plus two or three or four others. Now that's quite interesting. But part of the piloting of this and the way we are phasing the roll-out is in order to make sure that we are also doing that work alongside it of building the capacity. And we are doing a lot of work with the sectors, the different parts of the sector, to build the capacity, to identify the gaps where there might be gaps in provision, so that by the time we get to 2019-20, we are ready to roll this provision out entirely.
HMRC—thank you for the welcome for the fact that we've chosen that option. We did consider other options. We did look at whether we should provide this, as we currently are, through local authorities. I think I've made clear why, both from cost and the burden of that, it's not the right way to do it, and also data protection, sharing of information, et cetera, et cetera. We did also consider a stand-alone entity to do this, a made-in-Wales new entity. Why would we do it when it's more cost-effective and there's one already there that is doing this? They have had some minor glitches, by the way, in the England model, but one good thing is we're confident, by the time we come to roll out, we'll have overcome those glitches. It could be that in future it could be the Welsh Revenue Authority—the Bill as structured allows those opportunities to be looked at in the future if we need to—but, as currently set, we're keen to progress with the HMRC model and I thank the various Secretaries of State who are helping us facilitate this.