Thank you. I've listened carefully to the comments made by David Melding today and in the Stage 2 committee session, and also the comments made by Bethan Sayed today, and I genuinely believe that we all want the same outcome here, that where an officer or board member or manager is appointed by the Welsh Ministers to ensure that an RSL complies with the requirement imposed by or under an enactment, that appointment is for a reasonable time and doesn't go on indefinitely, but only until it's appropriate, to ensure the RSL has addressed the issue in question and can sustain its compliance. However, the amendments that we have tabled before us aren't necessary to achieve this, and it might be useful if I explain the context in which these powers might be used, as it will only be used in rare circumstances where there are very serious regulatory issues to address. 

The regulation team monitor RSLs' performance through continuous oversight and co-regulation, and it is likely, therefore, regulatory involvement would be considerable before a formal intervention of this significance is required. We updated the regulatory framework last year to include regulatory judgments. The judgments provide the regulator's view of the performance of an RSL, which is publicly available, informing tenants, lenders and other stakeholders about their performance. When the regulator has significant concerns about an association, once the facts have been established, a revised judgment can be published with an outline of the issues in question. This has the effect of putting the board and executive on public notice that they are required to tackle serious issues—what might be called 'special measures' in other fields.

Funders and other stakeholders are immediately alerted, and the board and executive will be publicly accountable for taking action to resolve issues. The framework and judgments therefore provide a robust regulatory environment, driving improvement, which means that situations where it's necessary to use statutory powers are very rare. However, the power to appoint officers and managers is important in ensuring the interests of tenants and the public money invested in social housing are protected, on the very rare occasions that such interventions might be needed. Therefore, these provisions must work effectively in practice.

Concerns have been raised by Mr Melding that the appointment of an officer or manager is currently able to go on indefinitely. [Interruption.] David Melding, excuse me. [Laughter.] This is not the case. Appointments are for such time on such terms as the Welsh Ministers specify. The Welsh Ministers must consider when and how it's appropriate to make an appointment, and they are subject to the public law in taking that action. This means that Welsh Ministers cannot act unreasonably or leave someone in a position where there is no good reason for them to be there. Where an appointment is made, the progress of the situation will be monitored, and the appropriate time to end the appointment will be decided from an informed position. Therefore, I'm satisfied that the existing legislation is effective, and that there are sufficient safeguards to ensure that officers or managers appointed by the Welsh Ministers to deal with a specific problem will not stay in post longer than is necessary or appropriate, and for this reason, the amendments in this group are unnecessary. 

In addition, I would also like to draw Members' attention to a couple of practical issues with the amendments. In addition to appointments to ensure compliance with requirements by or under an enactment, the amendments in this group also capture other circumstances where an officer might be appointed, for example in place of an officer removed by Welsh Ministers. Appointments made in these circumstances are not linked to a failure to comply with the requirements imposed by or under an enactment, and therefore the trigger for terminating appointments in the amendments would not work in these types of appointment. The amendments also remove the Welsh Minister's ability to renew appointments, which takes away further flexibility to keep an appointee in post during a transition period.

Finally, I recall at Stage 2 that David Melding raised concerns that the current position may undermine the ONS's concern, or their eagerness to see that there is a clear independence in the governance of RSLs. However, the purpose of this Bill is not to amend more widely the general regulatory functions of Welsh Ministers, but rather to address those elements of control that led to ONS classifying RSLs within the public sector. 

The ONS have reviewed the Bill prior to introduction, and stated that if the Bill receives Royal Assent in its current form, the totality of public sector influence exercised through central Government, local authorities and the existence of nomination agreements would not constitute public sector control. Therefore, not only am I satisfied that these amendments are unnecessary to ensure that appointments made by the Welsh Ministers are handled appropriately, I am also satisfied that the period of appointments has not been raised by ONS during their considerations, and the existing legislative provisions in respect of the period of appointments would not affect the ONS reclassification decision. For these reasons, I would ask that the amendments are not supported.