6. Statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance: The European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:57 pm on 25 April 2018.

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Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 3:57, 25 April 2018

—of the EU withdrawal Bill, reversing the current clause 11 so that returning EU powers in otherwise devolved areas will pass to the devolved Governments and legislatures? I also thank you for the inclusive way you've approached this with regard to myself and David Melding, and not only the evidence that you've consistently given to the external affairs committee, which I'm sure my colleagues will refer to, but the way that you've shared information confidentially with us that's helped us to work with you as matters move forward. I think we all hoped and believed that we could reach this point and share, I think, perhaps your, if not delight in all aspects of this, relief that we are now where we are.

We've long recognised that powers and competencies held at a EU level that apply to devolved matters will pass to this place on the point of exit or the date or time of exit, unless there was UK Government intervention, and we recognise that you have now simply agreed not to legislate in areas where UK-wide frameworks are needed until such frameworks have been agreed.

You have stated in the agreement, the inter-governmental agreement, in the EU Bill, on establishment of common frameworks, that there's a duty on UK Ministers to regularly report to the UK Parliament on progress on implementing common frameworks, removing temporary clause 11 regulations and powers, that the UK Minister will formally send such reports to the devolved Governments, which, in turn, will share these with their own legislatures. In what form will that sharing with the legislatures occur? How regularly does 'regularly' mean in terms of UK Ministers? Is that a time-specified regularity or is it something that will be triggered by particular events or circumstances agreed between yourselves?

You've indicated that you will continue to engage with the Scottish and UK Governments. I wonder if you could just expand a little bit more on how, particularly given the Scottish position—and I think, the will, certainly, of ourselves, that Scotland are ultimately also part of this agreement—how that will be progressed other than through the established JMC mechanism, unless that is all that currently exists. 

There is a duty on UK Ministers to seek the agreement of the devolved legislatures each time they propose to make regulations to put a policy area into the clause 11 so-called freeze. Will these regulations first be subject to agreement with the Welsh Government prior to their presentation to the devolved legislatures? Or what mechanism will exist to seek to secure that agreement before we're asked to consider them? We understand that this will allow the UK Parliament to approve regulations creating the freeze if a devolved legislature's agreement is refused or not provided within 40 days, subject to UK Ministers making a statement to the UK Parliament explaining why they decided to make regulations despite the absence of a devolved legislature's agreement. What, in your discussions, have you considered with the UK Government to be the likelihood of that situation occurring? Or, more likely, what safety mechanisms have been put in place to minimise the risk of that situation being arrived at?

We're aware now of the sunset or time limit on the regulation-making powers: of two years after exit day if not brought to an end sooner, and, on the temporary clause regulations themselves, of five years after they come into force if not revoked earlier. How will the different approaches that could then challenge agreed frameworks be adjudicated and addressed? Because clearly, at that point, when all the powers come out of the freezer and return to this place, there's a possibility that different approaches might occur. A list of 24 areas has been consistently referred to as being in the so-called deep freeze. We understand it's still 24 areas, although there might still be discussion over a smaller number, possibly in relation to state aid. Again, if you could perhaps give us some indication of the position regarding state aid, because as far as we're concerned, there is logic to state aid being subject to UK framework agreement.

I had—if I can find it—a final question. You stated that this should pave the way for the UK Government to withdraw its reference of the Law Derived from the European Union (Wales) Bill, or the continuity Bill, to the Supreme Court, and for the Welsh Government here to initiate a process to repeal that Bill. When I questioned you on this in committee last week, you indicated a number of possible mechanisms that might be applied, but have you had any further thought about how and over what time frame you might seek to repeal that Bill? Thank you.