Well, the WLGA didn't go as far as that, I'm afraid to say, but I will say to my very good friend from Swansea East, who has made a speech that isn't entirely unfamiliar to me, that, as a country, we are not the greatest population on the planet. The population of Wales is slightly more than Paris or Rome, but below that of Berlin and Madrid. We need the structures that reflect properly the communities that we serve, and I thought the points made by Paul Davies in that respect were fairly made and were good and reasonable points. We, of course, both lived in Dyfed in those days, and I would very gently remind the Member for Preseli that some of the problems of Dyfed were caused, of course, by a Conservative Secretary of State who, at that time, cut local government significantly, and we saw significant issues not only in Dyfed but across Wales.

When I talk to local government leaders—. I'm delighted that the Conservative spokesperson Janet Finch-Saunders is on a tour of Wales. We might even bump into each other at some point, and we'll look forward to those conversations. But, when I travel Wales, and I travel to visit and to speak to councillors, councils and council leaders, they do make, sometimes, some very robust points, let's face it. We have very robust and challenging conversations. But, do you know, not one of them—not one of them—nobody anywhere has said to me, 'I wish we had a Conservative Minister delivering Conservative policies, as they are doing across the border in England'. Not one of them. Even your Conservative councillor. I agree with Oscar's description of Peter Fox—he's a great local authority leader—but I have to say I'm still awaiting the correspondence where he seeks to influence me as to following Conservative policies in England, which have reduced, in the last six or seven or eight years, the spending power of local authorities by 49 per cent. [Interruption.] I always know when I'm making progress because the Member for Clwyd West begins to pipe up.

The spending power of local authorities in England has been reduced by 49 per cent. Now, the Conservative spokesperson, the Member for Aberconwy, said that we needed to respect local government, and I agree with her—we do. But cutting by half the support for local services is not showing respect, it is showing disregard. It is showing that they don't give a damn for those services or the people delivering those services, and that's the reality of Conservative policy. The Conservatives have stood this afternoon amid, at times, I will agree, some reasonable and fair points about a programme of mergers. But what they haven't reminded the Chamber is that the Conservative Government in England hasn't just compelled and enabled mergers to take place, but has done so without any support and any funding at all, anywhere, at any point. So, it's not right or proper for them to come here and oppose policies that have been pursued by a Government here that seeks to support and empower local government whilst at the same time not taking responsibility for some of the policies they themselves support across the border. [Interruption.] I want to make some progress, if I could. I can see that time is against me.

Because I want to go beyond the conversation that perhaps we've had this afternoon. All too often when we debate and discuss local government we discuss lines on maps and we discuss a programme of mergers. I believe that a programme of creating larger local authorities is a prerequisite to something else, and it is the something else that is important to me. I will let Members here into a secret. When I go to bed at night, I do not—[Interruption.] I'm going to finish the sentence. I do not—[Interruption.]