Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:16 pm on 1 May 2018.
Well, let me begin by agreeing, as Mike Hedges predicted I would, with a point he made at the outset: the problem with austerity is that it is self-defeating. It creates the problem it claims to address, and that's why we find ourselves in the position that we do. He's absolutely right to say, of course, not using PFI was a deliberate decision by Welsh Governments in the first decade of devolution, and I well remember the criticisms that were levelled at the Welsh Government at the time for making just that decision. I think we now see the wisdom of it. Every one of us, Dirprwy Lywydd, I think, can point to the impact of capital investment during the first period of the WIIP in our own constituencies, whether that is in health or in education or in transport or in housing and the other key purposes that were identified for it.
Can I thank Mike Hedges for reminding us of the multiplier effect of capital investment? It isn't just the building that you see, or the transport link that is created, it's the supply chains that it supports, it's the jobs that are created there, it's the spending in local economies, it's that benign economic cycle that capital expenditure brings.
Dirprwy Lywydd, Mike Hedges was also right to remind us that the issuing of bonds does not extend the capital limit of the Welsh Government. It doesn't give us more money to invest, but what it does is it gives us more choices in the way that we can get to that capital limit, and were the day to come where the interest rate in the Public Works Loan Board were to rise—and the UK Government were tempted to do that, as Mike said, not that long ago—we would have somewhere else to go. That's an important lever in our hands.
I'd like to be able to answer the more detailed questions that Mike raised in relation to active travel, to the Swansea area, to waste recycling and so on, but those are things that fall to my Cabinet colleagues. They will provide the detail to Members in a series of announcements that I'm sure they will be making over the coming days.