5. Statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Local Government and Public Services: Powys County Council — Update on Support under the Local Government Measure 2009

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:30 pm on 1 May 2018.

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Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 4:30, 1 May 2018

(Translated)

Now, you've asked several questions, and, unfortunately, I think I'm going to answer most of them in the same way. Yes, the situation has improved, and there is improvement happening in Powys, but that doesn't mean that we can step back and think that we've reached the kind of ambition and objectives that Russell George suggested in his contribution. So, I agree with you that we need an overview of the situation in Powys, and not just to look at children's services or adult services or governance alone and individually. We need to look across those services and all the reports and the analyses that have been made.

I'm not sure that I agree that, in your words, the same people who caused the problems are the ones who are trying to solve them. We have seen new appointments, as I suggested in my statement, and I do hope that they will be able to change the way that the council is run and the style and culture that you have mentioned. You talked about the culture in the council and I agree with you on that. We do need to change not just the way that people are working, but how they work as well, and that means that we need a change of culture. I believe that all Members in the Chamber acknowledge that that takes time. It doesn't happen overnight. Also, we need to ensure in all parts of the Chamber that we do give some support to the leadership to enable them to do that, whilst at the same time ensuring that the appropriate tensions in terms of scrutiny and accountability still take place within the council. I do acknowledge that it's a balance we have to strike, but it's a difficult one to strike sometimes.

I do think that there is capacity within the council, as it stands today, and that that's sufficient to enable the council to meet the objectives that we've set for them. I do believe that they have the current capacity to do that. Of course, if we do find, over the next few months, that they require additional support, the Welsh Government is willing to ensure that they do receive the support that they need. Our objective is to enable Powys to improve Powys. Our objective is to ensure that Powys can move forward on this journey with our support, and to ensure that they have all of the resources that they need in order to do that.

I agree, and I do see, that there is a lack of understanding sometimes about—. You've named the social services and well-being Act, and I agree with you on that; I think it goes further than that sometimes as well, but we also need to ensure that people do receive the training that they need to enable them to do the work that we're asking them to do, and I'm confident that that can happen and that that is going to happen.

You asked about staff turnover and morale amongst the workforce in Powys, and in the social services workforce specifically. I acknowledge the point that you make. It's not for me to give my opinion on the nature of Powys as a council that serves a rural region. I wouldn't agree that there is a problem in that regard. I think that the problems that Powys has experienced have been problems within the council itself, and they've been problems that have arisen because of the culture within the council. I do hope, as we improve the way that services are run in Powys, that we will see a better culture in Powys as well. We need to ensure that we understand the impact on additional services within the council, I agree with you on that, and I'm confident that the new chief executive and leadership will be able to do that.

To conclude, the political culture in Powys has been a very Powysesque one over the years, and all of us who have represented the county in this place, and those who represent the county today, understand that. We also see, sometimes, that the political culture—I'm being very careful with my words here, but it hasn't been a culture that has encouraged scrutiny and has promoted the kind of vital tension that any democratic institution needs. I think that is changing, and the councillors on all parts of the political spectrum in Powys need to take responsibility for improving Powys, improving the way that they run the council and also improving how they scrutinise the executive in Powys. I have seen this happening in my council in Blaenau Gwent, and I'm confident that the change of political culture that is required—and I agree with you on that—is possible in Powys as well.