Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:28 pm on 8 May 2018.
Thank you, Neil Hamilton, for that contribution. Indeed, I think I told you when you came into this Chamber that I do try to be optimistic and look for opportunities, and I do think this is a huge opportunity for us now.
I am determined that the consultation will be meaningful, so I haven't got any fixed ideas. I mentioned that we've had a lot of sub-groups from the Brexit ministerial round-table, which has come forward with a trade paper, for instance, and their views are very important to me. One of the things that they told me, right from the start, was that the status quo is not an option, and that CAP does contain perverse rules, and that does discourage delivery of public goods. Whilst the basic payment scheme does provide important support—of course it does—for many of our farmers, it wouldn't help them withstand the changes that they recognise would come following the UK leaving the European Union.
You're absolutely right around regulation. It must be done when we've got evidence from science, and I very much welcome you saying that. I've made it very clear that environmental standards must not drop, and you will have heard me say, in previous answers, that one of the things I want to do is help farmers and land managers become much more resilient to withstand the difficulties that are going to come. I think even before Brexit, the case for change was strong, and I think after Brexit, reform is absolutely unavoidable, and I think that is recognised.
The current policy we've got I don't think prepares our farmers for change in the long term. The scale of income subsidies paid to sheep farmers in particular is insufficient to keep the majority of them afloat when combined with price drops. The price of lamb at the moment is very high. I was talking to a farmer last week who told me he was getting £30 more this year than he was last year, but, obviously, due to the value of the pound, and it's not a trend that will continue, and I don't want them to be lulled into a sense of false security.
You mentioned that you didn't think there was much to choose from between us and England. I think all four UK countries would say we wouldn't have wildly different agricultural policies, but I can assure you there won't be a British agricultural policy. Each country will have their own individual one.
You mentioned New Zealand, and it was very good to be talking to Labour Ministers again. Of course, there's a coalition Government that came in last November. Certainly, the farmers that I spoke to—I did some farm visits and spoke to the sector and to other aspects of the sector, and whilst they said that, of course, it was incredibly painful and the lesson that they would want me to take away was that you needed that multi-year transition rather than that cliff edge, it was interesting that, although there'd been incredible hardship and a lot of pain, which lasted for many, many years, they wouldn't go back. They wouldn't go back to the system that was there, and I think that was something that I certainly took away.