4. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on progress towards making the Swansea Bay city region an energy self-sufficient area? OAQ52123

Thank you. Our green growth and local energy services have supported the public sector and community enterprises to develop energy efficiency and renewable energy schemes in the Swansea bay city region. I support this work and the valuable contribution it will provide to the aims of the city region deal.

Can I thank the Cabinet Secretary for her response? Last week I attended an event run by the Institute of Welsh Affairs regarding the harnessing of renewable energy in the Swansea bay city region. I want to stress again the importance of the tidal lagoon to the region, and ask what support the Welsh Government is giving to improving battery storage, because that really is the answer when we're generating electricity at times when there's not the need for it, and then we haven't got it available when there is the need for it. If we are going to get renewables to work, we need to ensure that both energy generated by the tidal lagoon, and, more specifically, energy generated by solar and by wind turbines, can be stored in such a way that it becomes available perhaps several months later when it's needed. But that needs improved battery technology. So, the question, again, is: what is the Welsh Government doing to support improved battery technology?

Thank you for that question. Obviously, as I have responsibility for planning and marine licensing, I can't comment on the specific project, but storage is a matter for the developer of any commercial energy project to consider. We know that we're going to need storage of all types to manage more distributed and decarbonised energy systems. Time shifting electricity to match generation with demand is also very important. We also know that battery technology is quite expensive, so we do expect to see a reduction in price in future, but obviously, looking at the cost of installing enough storage to provide a continuous electricity supply could add significantly to the capital cost of a project. I am aware of the event that you attended last week, and I'm looking forward very much to seeing the results of the other work packages that were discussed there, and the delivery plan.

Obviously, the delivery of the tidal lagoon is clearly an important element in this whole jigsaw, and we still want to see that. I suppose we won't even mind if the thing is called 'Prince of Wales tidal lagoon', as long as we get a tidal lagoon. By the way, equally important—[Interruption.] Equally important are the smaller energy projects, so in terms of ownership with the smaller energy projects, to what extent are you investigating the potential for Welsh Government and local authority ownership models for future projects? And do you agree that residents within the region should gain financially from the huge natural resource that exists in south-west Wales?

Thank you. Dai Lloyd will know that the Welsh Government is very supportive, in principle, of the economic benefits of tidal lagoons, and the opportunities that I think we have for a growing, vibrant, marine industry. We are still awaiting a response from the UK Government. I think the last person to write from the Welsh Government was the First Minister, and we're still awaiting a response. I met with Claire Perry, the Minister of State in the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, a couple of months ago, and pressed her also on the need to have a response as soon as possible.

I think you raise a really important point about smaller energy projects. Last week, I was in Pennal, and I visited a farm where there was a hydro scheme, and I think I mentioned it yesterday in my statement. It was one of the best projects I've seen, and I think it's really important that we do work with communities. We do have community energy projects, and you'll be aware the Welsh Government has put significant funding into these projects. I think, since I've been in post, for two years, we've had about 14 come to fruition.

Well, I'm more than happy to call it the 'Lesley Griffiths lagoon', particularly in this year of 100 years since partial suffrage, as long as we get the thing. I just want to go back to Mike's question about batteries because, of course, a big, big chunk of the city deal is the 'houses as power stations' programme. Mike mentioned solar panels and wind turbines, but I don't think we can overlook, as well, things like ground heat pumps and air heat pumps, which actually can be quite easily retrofitted to properties in a way that, perhaps, some of the stuff that we've got at the moment can't. 

I wonder if you can tell me whether programmes such as Nest and Arbed have actually contributed to a growth in the number of ground and air pumps, and whether—and we're talking about the 'homes as power stations' idea—they could be included a bit more visibly, perhaps, in the pitch for that. Thank you.

Thank you, Suzy Davies. I'm sure my mother would agree with you on your first point.

I can't give you an exact number, but I'm happy to write to you.FootnoteLink You'll be aware that we're just procuring the next stage of Arbed, which has been very successful in improving energy efficiency in some of our worst homes. So, I’d be very happy to write on the issue of ground heat pumps and the number we’ve used.

Information further to Plenary

Question 5 is withdrawn. Question 6—Jane Hutt.