Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:30 pm on 15 May 2018.
I believe also that Plaid Cymru have been quite right to draw attention to the deficiencies of the leader of the Labour Party in the United Kingdom in the course of the last few days, because what's happening in Scotland is that he is playing party games with the future of the United Kingdom, and I believe that that is a fundamentally irresponsible approach. And I'm sorry to have to say this, but I believe the grown-up and mature approach that we've had from Ministers in the Welsh Government shows how unfitted the leader of the party in the United Kingdom is for the office to which he aspires.
Now, I'll say at once that I've got no more trust in Theresa May than Plaid Cymru have. She makes Ethelred the Unready look like a model of decisiveness. I wouldn't trust her word, not because I think she's a dishonest person, but I think that she is so hopelessly incompetent that she could make the opposite happen by accident. And I do believe that for a remainer to show her colours in the way that she has done over the last few weeks over the absurd proposal of some kind of a customs union, which isn't even on the table, and which nobody on either side of the argument over Brexit is prepared to give the time of day to, shows the problems that we're dealing with.
But the fundamental reality is that we, in this Assembly, do not exercise any of the powers that are going to be affected by this Bill at the moment. The fundamental reality is that these powers are exercised by bodies that are far from Cardiff and over which we have no practical control, whether it's the European Commission, which has the power to legislate in itself without any democratic control by the Council of Ministers—. There's a huge corpus of EU regulation that simply spews out of the Commission and is rubber stamped on the spot. We will now have the opportunity to participate in the democratisation of huge portions of technical legislation in areas such as agriculture and the environment, in particular, which are of great importance to us here in Wales.
This is a massive—this whole process—enlargement of the democratic process and an extension in practical terms of the powers of this Assembly. I think that is hugely important, and this is why I can't understand the paradox of the Plaid Cymru position, that they regard a power grab by Westminster of constitutional tools and legislative tools that currently we don't even possess to be of fundamental importance, but they show absolutely no fear at all of handing those over to a body based in Brussels or elsewhere in the European Union, where we have even less control over what goes on than we do at Westminster. So, that seems to me to be, in practical terms, a most unsupportable position to hold. If Wales were an independent country politically then their points would have some force. But, as we are not, and the Welsh people don't show any great predisposition to adopt the Plaid Cymru position on Wales's role within the United Kingdom, and are not likely to in the foreseeable future, I think the arguments that Plaid are advancing here are very, very far from being in the world of reality.
So, consequently, I think it is very important that we do pass this legislative consent motion today, not just because it gives us the scope for increasing the powers of this Assembly, but, as part and parcel of this process—and I'm not sure that this point has been drawn out today, although it has on previous occasions when we've debated this topic—actually England is restricted now in many ways that it wasn't before as a result of this agreement, and that gives us the greatest possible assurance that the United Kingdom Government will want to conclude this transitionary period as quickly as it can, because I don't believe that the United Kingdom Government does want to have the legislative power for Wales in these devolved areas and that we can, I think, be as confident as we possibly can—. Even though I accept that this is not something in which the i's have been dotted and the t's crossed in legal form, I think it's inconceivable almost that the United Kingdom Government would want to resile at this stage from the devolution settlement, and, as Mick Antoniw pointed out in response to Dai Lloyd earlier on, there would be a fundamental constitutional crisis of great importance, where I think you would find that across this Chamber there would be, to all intents and purposes, unanimity in opposing such a venture. Therefore, I don't believe, personally, there is any constitutional risk in allowing this legislative consent motion to proceed; I believe there's every constitutional advantage and practical advantage for the people of Wales in doing so.