3. Legislative Consent Motion on the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:48 pm on 15 May 2018.

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Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative 3:48, 15 May 2018

The purpose of Plaid Cymru is to bring about an independent Wales, breaking up the United Kingdom. I respect, but I do not agree with, your objective.

Returning to the legislative consent motion and what we are debating today, this Bill has been hugely improved by the efforts, yes, of Welsh Government, but also, I think, others, and I'd like to congratulate both Mark Isherwood and David Melding for how they have dealt with this issue, and actually the unity of this group in supporting and trying to improve this legislation while noting what others were doing, including the threat and the actuality of a continuity Bill. I think what Mick Antoniw said about how this would've been a much better process if, at the beginning of it, UK Ministers had shown, in how they drafted the initial Bill, an appropriate level of respect to the Welsh Assembly and the devolved settlement—that that would've been better. But it is the case that, with some exceptions, UK Ministers are not as knowledgeable—and it's not at the top of their mind through most of what they do—about the mechanisms, the assumptions and the understandings, as well as the legal basis of the devolved settlement, as we in this Assembly are. But during this process, they have been educated on that. Damian Green and David Lidington in particular I think had reasonable knowledge to begin with, and that knowledge has become more expert as the process has gone on. I think, helped by Alun Cairns as Secretary of State, as well as by Andrew R.T. as leader of the Welsh Conservatives, many more Ministers at a UK level have come to appreciate and to understand the devolved settlement and how it functions. We now have a Bill that reflects and understands that in a way it didn't before.

When we talk about what a committee may have asked for before, it didn't ask for one of the things that, actually, the Welsh Government has succeeded in getting, and that is for the UK Government to commit not to legislate for England in these fields until there is an agreement on UK-wide frameworks, when England has 18 times the population of Wales. People often, with justice, complain about Wales not being treated with respect by the UK Government, but in this case the UK Government is binding, or at least giving a commitment to, itself in respect of England, the same as will be for Wales, as to what will actually happen, and there is a great motivation for everyone to agree on getting sensible frameworks up and running so we leave the European Union successfully, and go forward together as a United Kingdom.