2. Will the Leader of the House provide an update on how the Welsh Government is promoting digital inclusion in Wales? OAQ52188

3. Will the Leader of the House provide an update on the Welsh Government's policies for promoting digital inclusion? OAQ52184

I think, Llywydd, you've agreed to combine this with question 3.

Digital Communities Wales, and many other actions in our framework and delivery plan, support more people to gain maximum benefit from the life-changing opportunities digital technologies can offer.

Thank you. Only 51 per cent of pensioners living alone and 25 per cent of disabled people in Wales have internet access. A lack of skills and low confidence are often the key factors preventing people from getting online. Learning how to use technology and access the internet undoubtedly reduces loneliness and social isolation among older people, by helping them to stay in touch with family and friends. Gaining digital skills can be life changing, enabling people to rediscover old connections, and form new ones. Inter-generational projects have been shown to benefit in a variety of fields, and digital skills are now second nature to most young people, and they benefit from sharing their knowledge. There are some great examples around Wales where this has happened, but what more can the Welsh Government do to encourage and to support inter-generational digital projects?

Well, as I was saying, we have some very innovative projects going on. But just to use some of the stats that we have: 85 per cent of adults in Wales now regularly use the internet, compared to 66 per cent in 2010, and £1 million a year is invested in the dedicated digital inclusion programme, our Digital Communities Wales programme, and we've done that every year since 2015. Since then, we've supported over 117,300 individuals to engage with technology, and we've trained over 1,000 young digital heroes, which is the programme we're talking about, where young people from schools, colleges and youth organisations volunteer to support older people to engage in digital technology.

Most of the funding activities in this regard are aimed at addressing the basic digital skills that we were just talking about, allowing older people to become less socially isolated and to have access to basic services. But we're very much aware that we also want to increase the digital skills of the youngsters who are actually doing the volunteering and the teaching, and to include that in the curriculum work that we're doing, and with our digital heroes scheme. So, it's a really great programme, and we're actually developing both sides of that, and we're looking to roll that out as widely as possible through Wales. I've been discussing with the Cabinet Secretary for health what we can do in hospitals for some socially isolated people, who have lengthy stays in hospitals, where, in a sense, Llywydd, we have a captive audience.

Leader of the house, digital inclusion is dependent on adequate broadband speeds, and I know, over many months, you've shown a keen interest in my notspots in Monmouthshire, and visited a number of them. You'll be aware that, recently, the UK Government announced that they wanted to roll out a fifth generation pilot across my area in south-east Wales. Can you update us on any discussions you've had with the UK Government about that pilot, about the timescale for the pilot, the extent of it, and how the Welsh Government intends to build on that to learn the lessons from that pilot and then roll out the good practice across the rest of south Wales and the rest of Wales? 

Yes, we've asked Innovation Point to look into exactly how we can best exploit the 5G technologies and, actually, a large number of different pots of money that have come available in a number of different configurations, and Llywydd, yesterday, during my statement, I discussed some of those. I won't reiterate all of them, but we absolutely need to make sure that we are on top of the technology, that we assist small and medium-sized enterprises to exploit the technology, that we have the spectrum sales done in a way that allows us to access those technologies and doesn't cut them off, and that we also encourage the automotive industry in particular, but other digital-enabled industries, to come here to exploit the skills that we're producing.

So, we have a number of innovations going on at the same time, including things like the National Software Academy, which we fund over in Newport, which has a very innovative degree programme based on solving industry problems directly and which are then rolled out into the industries, and Innovation Point itself. There are a number of discussions that we have ongoing with our industries here already in Wales, because there's a big issue about upskilling the current workforce, as well as attracting in innovative, digital technologies. So, there are a large number of different ways that we're supporting those developments around the tech hubs, in the Valleys in particular. 

The leader of the house will excuse my lack of grasp of some of the issues with technology around them. I come from a generation where communication technology consisted of stretching a string across the road and having a tin can either end. [Laughter.] But I understand that the 96 per cent superfast broadband in the Pontypridd area is very good.

Can I raise with you the issue of estates—new developed estates that are being built? There is an example in my area of Dyffryn y Coed, a Persimmon development in Llantwit Fardre, where there were two phases. The first phase connected to superfast broadband through the fibre broadband, and that's fine. But phase 2 is not connected to that—it doesn't have that highest level, because it hasn't been asked for by the developers. Now, surely, there must be an issue where new developments, almost as part of their planning permission—that there should be a requirement that they actually do this, because I now have a large number of constituents who tell me that the best advice that they have is to set up a legal entity to apply for a grant of £4,800, and then there's a 17-step process, which will take 12 months, in order to actually get that sort of fibre connection.

I have written to you about this, but is this a problem that has been arising in places? What can we do about it? And should we not be ensuring that it's a mandatory obligation upon developers? 

Yes, it's been a continuing thorn in our side, actually, and this is the whole issue about whether this is an infrastructure technology or whether it's a luxury product. Unfortunately, the UK Government persist in thinking of it as a luxury product and not an infrastructure, and therefore we have less good powers in the area in terms of what we can do. But I have had extensive conversations, both with my Cabinet Secretary with planning responsibility and, actually, with the Minister for Housing and Regeneration, about what we can do, both in encouraging councils to put it in as part of 106 agreements, for example, and in encouraging the house builders to actually wire their properties.

There is an agreement with BT for house builders, where they build over 30 houses at the same time, to put the infrastructure in. But otherwise it's a negotiation between the developer and whatever technology company they're particularly negotiating with.

However, the scheme you're talking about is a BT community fibre scheme. We do have other schemes available in Wales and I think you have written to me, so I will be getting in touch with you about other solutions that may be possible for that particular community. It is an ongoing problem that we're aware of and that we're trying to work on. 

Leader of the house, Newport has been attracting investment into the digital sector and is keen to attract significantly more with support from Welsh Government. You mentioned the software academy and the potential of degree-level qualifications. Does there also need to be even more emphasis on training for people who are in, perhaps, lower paid jobs at the moment, and are part-time, so that they can upskill, increase their income and benefit from but also drive the development of the digital economy we want to see? 

 Yes, absolutely. There's a need for science, technology, engineering and mathematics-related skills right through the spectrum. So, we want to produce the graduates of the future but we also need the technicians and so on. So, we have a number of employability schemes. They're not in my portfolio, but we have a large number of employability schemes and flexible skills programmes, which are available to existing companies to do just that—to upskill their current workforce. We also have employability schemes for people not yet in the market to get their skills into that. So, both of those things are covered. The software academy is looking at doing outreach for people who want to perhaps do level 3 skills as well—so A-level equivalent and higher national diploma, with a route to going on to higher education or indeed with a route to going into employment at that point. So, we are exploring that. There definitely is a need for everybody at every level of the range of abilities.