7. Debate: The Older People's Commissioner for Wales's Annual Report 2017-18

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 6:15 pm on 22 May 2018.

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Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour 6:15, 22 May 2018

Diolch, Llywydd, and can I just begin by thanking all Members who've contributed today for their very constructive engagement, even though we might agree to go in slightly different directions in delivering the rights particularly? Although I would say to Darren that we never have a totally closed mind; we're not being unduly stubborn, but what we have come to is an agreement with Sarah that there is a way to actually make these rights real now—so, going underneath those headline United Nations rights and actually translating them down into the detailed guidance and practical implementation on the ground. So, I'm looking forward to engaging not only with Sarah as she's outgoing, but also, going forward, with the new commissioner to actually really deliver that. And we'll work with Members here and also with the new commissioner to really make that bite, because we're aiming at the same thing, it's just that we think we've got a more immediate way we can do it. But we'll never have a totally closed mind. I'm not a total Eeyore, I'm not not a total stubborn ass on these issues; we're always open minded. 

Can I thank all the contributions here? Every one of them has universally praised the role of Sarah, the commissioner now, and the work that she's done. Janet, you mentioned the Bill of rights—I think I've made clear our approach on this, making rights real and the engagement that we'll have. Also asked about the announcement and the new commissioner—it's imminent. It has to be imminent because our outgoing commissioner is imminently going. I can't give you the exact date, but it is imminent.

Dai, thank you for your committee's work with the commissioner and the recommendations that you've brought forward over a long period of time, and the point you made about aligning health and social care across the piece. Well, that is an interesting time for this Assembly in both the parliamentary review that's gone past and what may come forward now with the long-term plan.

David, absolutely right on challenging the stereotypes—the ageist stereotypes that are constantly rehearsed. And, in fact, I spoke at the Welsh Senate of Older People on Monday, making exactly that point. In making this country the best country possible for older people, we also need to challenge the stereotypes, and some of that is to do with saying, 'Look at what we're doing with apprenticeships,' and actually saying, 'Apprenticeships are available for everybody.' Look at the visit that I made in north Wales last week where we were looking at re-introducing people back into childcare, and the two groups of people who were particularly represented within that Government-supported and National Day Nurseries Association-supported piece of work into childcare were the older population and the very young NEET population. So, there are ways we should be challenging this in practical ways going forward.

Julie, you spoke about the tremendous work that's been done around ageing well in Wales, and very practical issues as well around, if you're going to improve somebody's independent living through the years, all the way through the years, practical things like toilet provision and so on become very, very important. And, curiously, that's where the rights agenda really bites. If you can make a practical rights agenda, the right to that independent living, the right to travel around, the right not to have barriers put in front of you, all of a sudden, you get really meaningful change there on the ground.

And, Darren, you mentioned the commissioner occasionally giving the Welsh Government, or providers, or others, a nip. Sometimes, it's more than a nip, it's a big old kick in the shins. But that's right—commissioners are there to challenge. I would applaud, as well, Sarah for the way she's challenged and hasn't been afraid to do that, but also to constructively engage and to say, 'There are ways to go forward on this,' and I really appreciate that and all the remarks that have been made about the outgoing commissioner.

In the very short time that I've got available, I won't be able to respond to all the points, but let me touch on some key ones that have been raised. Advocacy is key within all this. We've committed to continue and to develop advocacy services. I've agreed that my officials work to develop a national framework for commissioning independent professional advocacy for adults in Wales, to improve consistency right across Wales. The Age Cymru project outcomes will include engagement with local authorities to support them to fulfil their duties under the Act. And we'll be looking forward, my officials and I, to work with the office of the older people's commissioner to inform this work, taking particular account of the report on older people's experiences of accessing and using professional advocacy. But we shouldn't forget as well the range of informal advocacy that's out there, and there's work going on within Welsh Government and with the commissioner and others to develop that network of informal advocacy, of people sitting alongside people as well. Falls and preventions we mentioned earlier, so I won't touch on that particularly.

Quite a few people mentioned the issue of the use of antipsychotic medicine. I know our committees have been looking at that. Reducing the number of people with a dementia diagnosis inappropriately receiving antipsychotic medication, particularly in care home settings, has been identified as a key action in the draft dementia strategy. We have contributed also to the short inquiry into the use of antipsychotic medication in care homes by the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, and we'll be taking into careful consideration the views of the health and social care committee's inquiry when taking forward our work. We recognise and welcome the commissioner's recognition that chemical means have been included in the definition of restraint through proposed regulations under the regulation and inspection of care Act.

My final point, Llywydd, I think, because I won't be able to cover all points here, and I don't even know how much time I have left—. Can I turn to the very important issue that a couple of people raised of loneliness and isolation? We recognise that loneliness and isolation is one of the most significant issues facing older people. Improving people's resilience across all ages, making them less susceptible to the harmful effects of loneliness and isolation, ensuring they have access to support services, are all critical in maintaining people's health, well-being and independence.

So, in 'Taking Wales Forward' and in our response to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee's inquiry, we confirmed our commitment to developing a nationwide, cross-Government strategy to tackle these issues by March 2019. The work has begun, and we're engaging widely with stakeholders, including Scottish and UK Governments, to help us the set the direction and better inform and drive our work. The committee's inquiry provided us with a valuable, informed account of the issues experienced by older people in Wales. In our response, we also confirmed a commitment to assess the impact of loneliness and isolation on health and well-being, assess the impact of intergenerational contact, which we know from our own constituencies the beneficial effect when that is done well, intergenerational contact, developing a national awareness campaign to reduce stigma and for public understanding—.

Llywydd, I can see you looking at me because I've gone over time. My apologies on those points I cannot return to, but, simply, in closing, can I echo the remarks that have been made about the commissioner and thank her and her team for all they've achieved in 2017-18? The report marks the end of the commissioner's six-year tenure. I'm sure that many older people across Wales will greatly miss the commissioner's passionate campaigning on their behalf. We will miss it as a Welsh Government, having worked with such a strong, confident advocate of human rights. She has encouraged Government, the public sector and citizens of Wales to think differently about ageing, to recognise that older people, far from being a burden on our society, are an asset that should be celebrated and they are people, first and foremost, with rights and lives to be lived to the max.