2. Business Statement and Announcement

– in the Senedd at 2:19 pm on 5 June 2018.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:19, 5 June 2018

(Translated)

The next item is the business statement and announcement, and I call on the leader of the house to make the statement. Julie James.

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour

Diolch, Llywydd. There are two changes to report to today's business. The Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport will make a statement on rail services and the south Wales metro shortly. And, later this afternoon, the Minister for Housing and Regeneration will make a statement on changes to the park homes commission rate. Additionally, the time allocated to the Counsel General's oral Assembly questions tomorrow has been reduced. Business for the next three weeks is shown on the business statement and announcement found among the meeting papers available to Members electronically.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative

Leader of the house, could we have a statement from the public service Minister on the support and help that community councils and town councils have, and the guidance that the unitary authorities have in dealing with our town and community councils? In my own electoral region, I have a great difference in the level of community councils that are in the Vale of Glamorgan, Cardiff and Rhondda Cynon Taf, and I find that, on each occasion, local authorities have a differing view on how they consult and how they engage with those community and town councils. It is really troubling to hear many community councillors say that they feel completely ignored and overlooked in what is the first rung in our democratic process. I'd be grateful to understand what role and what assistance and guidance central Government—in this instance, Welsh Government—give to the unitary authorities in Wales to make sure that there's a level playing field when it comes to that engagement and that consultation process on important announcements. Thank you.

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:20, 5 June 2018

Yes, the Cabinet Secretary is happily nodding away at you, and I think he's indicating he'll be more than happy to bring forward a statement on this.

Photo of Mr Simon Thomas Mr Simon Thomas Plaid Cymru

Could I ask for a Government debate to celebrate the tenth anniversary of Wales becoming a Fairtrade Nation? That's something that—. I think we were the first in the world to have that status, and it's something that I think we should celebrate as an Assembly. But it'd be good to celebrate it with a Government debate, because we're using Government time then, which is good, because it's on a Tuesday, which is good, because it will get people's attention, but because we can also then interweave into that debate other work that the Government does in its own outreach Wales in Africa work and supporting fair trade in the wider sense of the word. I am given to understand that the Government has cut the money that goes to fair trade in Wales, so we can explore that as well. That wouldn't be such a good side of it, but I think, on the whole, we want to celebrate that we have the tenth anniversary tomorrow of Wales becoming a Fairtrade Nation.

Secondly, can I ask for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for health? I understand he's shortly to visit Welshpool hospital after the flooding, the very sudden flash flooding, that was had there about a week ago, and I want to thank those workers and medical staff and everyone who worked to overcome those difficulties. When the Cabinet Secretary returns, can we have at least a written statement from him about what experiences and lessons have been learned from that, particularly what resilience and planning may need to be applied for the future so that we can make sure—? You can't control the weather, but you can at least know the effect of such flash flooding and take that into account.

Finally, can I ask for perhaps an oral statement, I think, building on what the Cabinet Secretary just said earlier—sorry, the First Minister just said earlier—in questions around the future of the tidal lagoon in Swansea bay, something I know she is very interested in? We are hearing these very desperate rumours from Westminster of a lack of support at the UK Government level now for the tidal lagoon and some astonishingly ill-judged comments from Alun Cairns—ill-judged and completely incorrect, as it happens, in terms of his mathematics. If we can have a statement from the appropriate Minister—perhaps the First Minister himself—including a reference to the letter, which I have now seen, which he wrote today to Greg Clark—. And it would be good if that letter was now circulated, rather than by Twitter, directly to Assembly Members so that we can have a good look at it because, for the first time, I see an actual figure in this letter of £200 million offered by the Welsh Government. That has been rumoured in the past. I haven't seen it written down before. Certainly, as Chair of the Finance Committee, I haven't seen it in any budget papers before. An equity scheme, a co-financing scheme: a rather similar approach has been taken by the UK Government to Wylfa of course, in terms of building investment in energy infrastructure, and, of course, for the UK Government to come up with a contract for differences agreement similar to that for Hinkley Point C. All this is positive from the Welsh Government, but we need to understand how we can build this alternative approach now, which I'm sure will get support from all parts of this Assembly, as the Assembly has unanimously voted in favour of the principle of a tidal lagoon, subject to regulatory approval, as the letter does, in fact, say. What we really need is a Welsh-made plan B. This is a fantastic opportunity, not only for job creation, not only for energy generation in Swansea bay, but a technology that Wales can own and sell abroad and actually pioneer and take forward. I'm very much afraid that part of the reason that we're held back and not allowed to take this forward ourselves is that some people think that we should do what we're told and we shouldn't take the initiative in things like this. Well, I don't agree with that, and I think it's very appropriate that we have time here now to debate what an alternative plan could be: one made in Wales, one where we perhaps come as joint owners of such an idea as this, where we work with the company, with the private sector, but ultimately the people of Wales will also benefit then from the investment that the Welsh Government can do and bring the UK Government, perhaps shamefaced, but, at the end of the day, bring the UK Government to the table as well.

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:24, 5 June 2018

Yes, well, Simon Thomas, as usual, makes a number of very interesting points. I think the Fairtrade Nation anniversary is something that we hadn't overlooked. It's very important to celebrate it; I'm very happy to explore what we can do to bring forward an opportunity to do so. It's something we are all very proud of, and I completely take the point. I certainly am happy to look at how we can bring forward such an opportunity. 

I'm sure that the Cabinet Secretary for health will want to update Members on the Welshpool hospital issues. I'll explore with him the best way of making sure that that update happens. I'm not entirely certain what the extent of that is, but I'm happy to explore how to do that with him.

On the tidal lagoon, I had the misfortune to overhear the Secretary of State for Wales, Alun Cairns, this morning on Radio Wales, and I thought that his actions were disgraceful. I think, to quote a Cabinet Secretary colleague of mine, 'With friends like that, who needs enemies?', as he was still trying to claim that he was a friend of the lagoon. I think the UK Government's behaviour over this has been disgraceful. The Hendry report made it extremely plain how it could be taken forward. There is absolutely no excuse for falling back on erroneous figures and poor analogies. The idea that anyone had ever proposed a like-for-like comparison with Wylfa and that, somehow, if you put Wylfa Newydd on a different footing, the tidal lagoon necessarily falls, or that, indeed, any old investment in Wales will do, and if it's in Wales it must be quite close to each other so it doesn't really matter if one is in the north or the south, which is the overwhelming impression I was getting from what he was saying, simply isn't good enough.

We are extremely proud of what we have done to try and ensure that the tidal lagoon goes ahead. We will very seriously continue to do that. The First Minister made his opinion extremely plain, both in First Minister's questions and as a result of that. I will make sure that is distributed to all Members, either by placing it in the Library or some other means. It is available. It's a public letter. We're very pleased to be able to support the lagoon. We're very sad that such a letter has been necessary today. I will say, though, that of course we have not yet had a decision. What we have had is a load of leaked stuff and rumours and Secretaries of State going on the radio to say things, but we have actually not had any decision. So, I would very much hope that the outpouring of outrage, really, at the proposed decision will make them think again and that we can indeed have the right decision. But we are certainly very much behind it, and I will certainly explore what we can do to make sure that Members can express their views very forcibly on the subject.  

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 2:27, 5 June 2018

Leader of the house, the Vale of Glamorgan Council is proposing to reshape youth services in my constituency, which could result in the loss of up to 30 trained part-time youth workers. I understand that there has been no direct consultation with the young people, the Vale youth forum, or the elected youth cabinet, in line with the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. I also understand that the south Wales police commissioner hasn't been consulted in terms of the impacts on young people and prevention of crime. There has been no formal consultation with the trade unions representing the youth workers. I'd be grateful for a statement on this matter. 

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:28, 5 June 2018

Can I just say that I'm not aware of the circumstances surrounding that? I'd be very grateful if you'd share the circumstances with me, and I will explore what we can do once we have got the detail from you.

Photo of Nick Ramsay Nick Ramsay Conservative

Diolch, Llywydd. Can I—? [Laughter.] Thank you for your support, Oscar. Can I concur with the comments of Simon Thomas earlier, when he spoke about the importance of celebrating Wales's Fairtrade status and, I think, the tenth anniversary? It's not just Wales that has achieved Fairtrade status. Abergavenny achieved status as a Fairtrade Town 11 years ago. I went and helped cut the cake last year. So, could we also congratulate all those towns and settlements across Wales that are also doing their little bit to feed into the Welsh fair-trade agenda and to support the overall message? There's a lot of hard work going on out there. 

Secondly, and finally, I recently—. Those of you who follow my Facebook will have seen that I attended a series of workshops at the Gwent Angling Society open day, which was established to encourage people in Monmouthshire and south-east Wales to take up angling and to realise the benefits of it. I learned a lot. I specifically learned how calming an activity it is. It's recognised now that it's very good for mental health issues and for those suffering from stress, which is of course central to mental health awareness this year. So, I wonder if we could have a statement—I'm not entirely sure which Minister it would be, potentially rural affairs. Could we have a statement from the Welsh Government about what they're doing to support activities such as angling, but not exclusively, which don't just have a well-being effect on people's physical health, but also on their mental health as well?

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:30, 5 June 2018

Of course I'm always very happy to congratulate every area of Wales that has made the effort to support fair trade. We're very proud to be a Fairtrade Nation, but of course it's impossible to be a Fairtrade Nation without the support of all of the little communities and voluntary groups and cities and towns—all sorts of communities across Wales—that come together to make that possible. I'm very happy to congratulate Abergavenny. There is a large list of other towns and communities that support it as well. And, as Simon Thomas also pointed out, it's an opportunity to buy very lovely goods, knowing that you're supporting a community of people who make those goods, who are being paid a fair wage, and they're getting a better deal, but it's also an opportunity to support the countries from which the goods come, by extending the hand of friendship and commerce to them. So, I'm more than happy to join with him in doing that, and, as I said to Simon Thomas, we'll explore an opportunity to have some sort of recognition of that celebration here in the Senedd.

In terms of angling, I'm very pleased to hear—I do not follow your Twitter account so closely, or your Facebook account so closely, that I'd noticed your visit to the anglers over the weekend, I'm afraid, but I'll chastise myself and pay more close attention in future. But of course the Member makes a very important point; a large number of outdoor activities, community activities and social activities are very beneficial to mental health. The Welsh Government is very cognisant of that, and it's very much part of our mental health strategy—that whole approach to mental health, including physical, community and social activities as an important part of that. The Member does a very good job in highlighting the efficacy of communities such as the angling community in supporting mental health projects of that sort.

Photo of David Lloyd David Lloyd Plaid Cymru 2:32, 5 June 2018

Can I ask the leader of the house for an urgent statement? Following very much in the footsteps of Simon Thomas's excellent contribution, it's about the Swansea bay tidal lagoon. Obviously, the reports over the last few days, as you will be aware, are hugely disappointing. In Swansea, obviously, electrification of the main railway line is now dead—we've got to make do with diesel trains in the future, whereas diesel is being phased out everywhere else because of health concerns. As you would know, there's huge support locally for the development of this tidal lagoon in Swansea, not just because of the environmental benefits, but also in terms of the economic potential here for Swansea and the rest of Wales in becoming a world leader in the field. A failure by the UK Government to back this scheme, flying in the face of their own Government-commissioned report by Charles Hendry, which called it a no-brainer last year, would be yet another shameful betrayal of Wales.

Given that this is of such strategic importance to Swansea, and the rest of Wales, it is vital that the Welsh Government outlines clearly what it has done in recent days to respond to speculation that the scheme is floundering. I hear what the First Minister said earlier, and also your earlier reply, but I still think we do need an urgent statement, so we can truly explore what is going on. In addition to what has been said, has the Welsh Government been trying to facilitate meetings with the UK Government and the developers in recent days, for example? Because we need to know what contingency plans the Welsh Government has in place, and whether it is prepared to look at innovative models of delivering this scheme, as Simon Thomas said. The Welsh Government could look to use their capital borrowing powers to invest in the Swansea bay tidal lagoon, for example, instead of the expensive black route for the M4 relief road. By setting up a publicly owned Welsh energy company, it could bring this project alive themselves.

Three weeks ago, in the legislative consent motion vote here to approve losing powers in the EU withdrawal Bill, Labour were rejoicing and proud to be unionist, and placing their trust in a UK Conservative Government. Now, of course, the downside of not being in charge of your own destiny is that decisions that are damaging to you, damaging to Wales, happen. Another kick in the teeth, as the First Minister said. How many teeth as a nation have we got left? The Labour Welsh Government needs to show how committed it is to delivering this scheme. If the UK Government does decide to betray Wales, then we need to think of ways in which we can deliver it without them. So, will you commit to an urgent statement on this vital issue?

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:35, 5 June 2018

Well, I think I agreed with at least part of Dai Lloyd's speech on the subject of the tidal lagoon. I'm not entirely certain it was well placed in the business statement, Llywydd, but as I've said—

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour

We will explore an opportunity to make sure the Senedd has the opportunity to express its very heartfelt views on this. I would, however, just say that, of course, as far as I'm aware, as I stand here, no actual decision has been made. We have had a series of leaks and trials and so on. I seriously hope that the UK Government has noted the appalling reception that its trial has had, and I therefore very much hope that they will come to their senses and make the decision that the Hendry report asked them to make. And I hope the benches opposite me are listening—because I know that they also support the project—and will be putting some pressure on their own Government in the UK to make the right decision.

So, they haven't made it yet, as far as I'm aware. I very much hope that they will not make that decision and that they will come to their senses. However, if we do have that decision then, of course, we will be in a position to act, and the letter sets out the fact that we are already making it extremely plain that we want this project to go ahead and that it's important to the people of Wales. As I said earlier, if a set of circumstances are good enough for Hinkley, then they ought to be good enough for Wales as well.

Photo of Julie Morgan Julie Morgan Labour 2:36, 5 June 2018

The decisive vote in the Irish Republic last week to repeal the eighth amendment and overturn a near-total ban on abortion I think has been widely welcomed. I think it was really a momentous occasion, but it does highlight the fact that Northern Ireland is the only place in the UK and really almost the only place in Europe where abortion is not legal except in very extreme circumstances. I know that we have debated here in this Chamber about access to NHS abortions for Northern Ireland women in Wales, but does the leader of the house think there is any case for a debate about how we can ensure that Northern Ireland women are able to get access to abortions in the way that we are able to here? I know there are tricky devolution issues, but does the leader of the house have a view on how we could possibly express our view in this Chamber?

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:37, 5 June 2018

Yes. The Cabinet Secretary for health has made it very plain that we have arrangements in place to ensure that women who do need to leave where they live and come to Wales in order to secure an abortion in the sad circumstances that they find themselves in—that that remains available. I'm very pleased that he's made that extremely plain, but clearly that's not optimal and people need the support of their families and of their communities around them as well. I'm afraid I think that the deal that the UK Government has done with the DUP means that any likelihood of us being able to secure change in terms of the devolution settlements overall and to have an evening of the playing field there is very unlikely at this point in time, but here in Wales we are very happy—and I'm pleased, as I said, that the Cabinet Secretary has reiterated this—to ensure that women who do need our medical assistance can get it.

I will just pay tribute to the campaigners on the eighth amendment in southern Ireland. I was very pleased to see that go through. I was a little startled—Llywydd, forgive me, I don't know this from my own understanding as I haven't had the chance to look at up—but I was startled to hear one of the campaigners saying that they had other things to do and that apparently the constitution of the Republic of Ireland says that a woman's place is better in the home, and she felt sure that they would now be able to get that amended as well. I'm appalled to find that it does say that, if that's true, and I hope that they'll be able to bring forward that amendment very shortly as well.

Photo of Mohammad Asghar Mohammad Asghar Conservative 2:39, 5 June 2018

Leader of the house, may I ask for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for health on the work of the NHS counter fraud service within Wales? The former chief executive of the NHS counter fraud service has claimed that the NHS in Wales could be losing up to £200 million a year through fraud and that not enough is being done to tackle it. Last year, the service in Wales recovered just under £350,000, which is peanuts, really. Can I ask for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary on whether he agrees with the former chief executive about the scale of fraud in the Welsh NHS and what action he intends to take to address this issue, please?

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour

It's a very important issue, and I know that the Cabinet Secretary has seen the report in question. I think that the Member would be very well placed to ask him a question during oral Assembly questions to understand exactly what he's taking forward in the light of that report.

Photo of Bethan Sayed Bethan Sayed Plaid Cymru 2:40, 5 June 2018

Over recess, we saw the company Lush come out to support the Spy Cops campaign, which is a campaign to uncover the fact that many police officers, emanating from the 1980s to this day, were infiltrating campaign groups here in Wales and across the UK, impregnating women and having sexual relationships with women without them knowing that this was the case. Now, I wanted to understand what the Welsh Government's view is on this and whether you support me in expanding the inquiry to the rest of the UK—I understand that there is a judicial review to try and involve Northern Ireland—and also to expand the public inquiry to full disclosure. Because, at the moment, we simply do not know the extent to which this has affected Welsh life. I know that there are campaigners called 'Lisa Jones' and 'Deborah'—these are false names to protect their anonymity—who have had severe problems on a personal level as a result of these relationships with police officers. Now, this campaign is not to try and undermine the whole of the police force, and I think that needs to be made clear. But I also think that the most important issue here is that women's lives have been severely violated, and we should all be concerned about this and about, potentially, the news that we currently do not know about some Welsh stories in this regard. So, I would welcome a statement from Welsh Government to give support to those women who have been affected and support to the campaign.

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:42, 5 June 2018

Yes, we were all absolutely appalled when this news started to break a few years ago about some of these clandestine operations. One can only imagine the trauma that somebody goes through to discover that their partner isn't at all who they thought they were and that the whole of their lives, really, has been a sham. It's an outrageous way for any police force to behave in any country, never mind a democracy. I do not have the words to express how outraged I am about it. I'd be more than happy to explore with my Cabinet Secretary colleague for public services whether or not there are any outstanding issues in Wales and keep Assembly Members updated. If Bethan Sayed has any particular information she thinks would be helpful in that, we'd be very glad to have it.

Photo of Joyce Watson Joyce Watson Labour

Leader of the house, might we make some time to debate the national survivor engagement framework? The purpose of the framework is to ensure that survivors of violence against women are able to inform and influence Government work related to domestic abuse and sexual violence. The consultation closed in May. When the Government publishes its response, it would be good to have a question-and-answer session here in this Chamber. I'm sure that some Members will have seen and heard Germaine Greer's attention-seeking views on rape that were reported in the news last week. Comments like that, in my opinion, are dangerous, not least because they can damage and demoralise and undermine survivor engagement, but more importantly, at a time when people may need support, she is taking away from them, by her comments, if they are shared, the understanding and dignity that has already been removed from them. So, the national framework does aim to do exactly the opposite of what she tried to do, and that is to empower women to shape and guide the Government policies that affect them. So, I hope that we can make some time to have a reasoned debate while at the same time absolutely condemning that type of conversation here in Wales—in my opinion, just to draw attention to herself rather than serve any meaningful purpose whatsoever.

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:43, 5 June 2018

Yes, I think Joyce Watson makes a very good point, as she always does speak up for the survivors of these sorts of outrages. We will continue our ambitious plan to improve the response to all victims of abuse and to ensure that, across all our public services, there are highly skilled, prepared professionals, ready and able to offer survivors the help and support they need. We put survivors at the very centre of our response to all domestic violence, sexual violence and other crimes of violence, and I think it's very important that we do so. So, whilst not taking away—I understand that Germaine Greer was expressing her own view of her own experience and, fortunately for me, I didn't hear what she had to say, but we've learned very much through our extensive survivor engagement work that survivors respond to the experience very differently and in very different ways, and, for many, it has very long-term and serious consequences, as Joyce Watson pointed out. I think it's very important to take that on board.

Only this week I met with the police and crime commissioner—our previous colleague—Jeff Cuthbert, to discuss with him what was happening in Gwent on the review of rape cases that's currently ongoing. He was assuring me that they are very keen to make sure that all sides in the review of rape trials are properly represented, both the victims and survivors and, indeed, of course, that justice is served to those accused of rape and before conviction. I was very reassured by their holistic approach to that, and I've had several discussions with my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Local Government and Public Services around what we're doing in this regard as well. So, I think Joyce Watson makes a very important point, and we will be giving it very careful consideration in our forthcoming victim strategy.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 2:45, 5 June 2018

I call for a Welsh Government statement on the issue of electrical safety and older people in Wales. At an Assembly event last November, over six months ago, the only charity dedicated to reducing and preventing damage, injuries and deaths caused by electricity, Electrical Safety First, launched their report, 'How can we keep older people in Wales safe?' With more than half of accidental house fires in Wales caused by electricity, their report found that older people are significantly more at risk than other age groups when it comes to electrical fires in the home. Older people represent over a third of electrical fire casualties, with people aged over 80 at least four times more likely than other age groups to have been a casualty in these fires. The number of people aged 80 or over is expected to double by 2035, with an estimated 50,000 people aged over 65 living with dementia. The majority of older people in Wales—about 80 per cent—own their own homes, most of which will be older housing stock that has never had an electrical safety fire check. Based on the research, the report makes a number of recommendations, the first of which is a call on the Welsh Government for a scheme delivering free five-yearly annual home electrical safety checks for people aged over 80, regardless of property tenure. However, they said that since they launched their report they have not seen any further progress made by the Welsh Government in addressing the issue and ensuring that it's a priority to reduce the number of older people affected by fires caused by electricity in Wales. Given their evidence-based concern, I hope that you will agree that a statement from the Welsh Government should be forthcoming.

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:47, 5 June 2018

Thank you for that. It's obviously a very important point. We've just announced the appointment of the new older person's commissioner, actually, and I'm sure the new commissioner will be taking a keen interest in this as well. The responsibility is spread amongst a number of Cabinet colleagues, so I will ensure that there's a co-ordinated response and we'll write to the Member with where the Welsh Government is at on that very important point.

Photo of Leanne Wood Leanne Wood Plaid Cymru 2:48, 5 June 2018

Last week, a woman who wanted help with her mother's personal independence payment assessment came to see me. The mother, a domestic abuse survivor, suffers from a range of conditions sustained as a result of a violent attack by her partner back in 2009. She's arthritic, she's got a range of skin conditions, internal organ problems, having been viciously attacked by a hammer and a Stanley knife and left for dead. Understandably, she also suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder.

Now, she was shouted at by a member of Capita's staff when trying to arrange a home visit for this PIP assessment. Capita has now accepted that a home visit is necessary, but they're unable to provide a suitable time around existing medical appointments, and if this next visit doesn't happen, then the PIP payments, the payments she is expecting, she faces losing.

Now, the callous and cruel nature of the benefits system is undeniable, and when you face such harrowing stories in your constituency surgery, you can see the human face of that tragedy first hand. It's not the way for a woman who has been treated in this way to be treated by the state. The devolution of welfare would allow the Welsh Government to mitigate many of the problems associated with this callous system. So, could the leader of the house therefore bring forward a debate or a statement on what can be done by this Government to alleviate the awful pain and suffering brought about by the current welfare system?

I have a second issue as well, and that's in relation to the Wales Governance Centre report out today, published with the University of South Wales, on the state of prisons in Wales. It concluded that the safety and state of prisons here is significantly worse than those in England, and, in fact, the number of recorded self-harm incidents and prison assaults in Wales has increased at a higher rate than in prisons in England since 2010, and there were more prison disturbances at HMP Parc in 2016 and 2017 than at any other prison in Wales and England. Thousands of prison officer posts have been cut, they face real-terms reduction in wages, and now staff and offenders are being put in danger as a result. Decisions about the Welsh prison estate should be taken in Wales and this evidence makes that clear. So, will the leader of the house bring forward a debate on the prison estate in Wales and how the Welsh Government can ensure that citizens who work as prison staff, or who are housed as offenders, are able to work or serve their sentences in a safe environment?

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:50, 5 June 2018

Yes, on that second one, I think we'd be very glad to bring forward a debate on the state of prisons as a result of that report. Those of us who have prisons in our constituencies, and I'm one of them, know very well from visiting what the conditions are like and what the problems are. It's long been our Government's ambition to have criminal justice devolved to Wales and one of the very real reasons for that is, actually, that the sentencing policies currently pursued by the UK Government are producing many of the issues that Leanne Wood draws attention to. It's not just what happens to people once they're in prison; it's why they're in prison in the first place and whether that's at all efficacious and what the purpose in a modern democracy of locking up quite so many young working-class men actually is.

And, to use very unparliamentary language, don't even get me started on the position of women in prisons, because that's a whole other debate as well. I think my Cabinet Secretary colleague and I have had many a discussion on this and would be more than happy to have that debate, because there are a range of issues contributing to the deleterious situation we find in our prisons, particularly the privatised Parc prison. So, I have a lot of sympathy with that and we have a lot to discuss here in the Welsh Government about the ragged edge of the devolution settlement and the difficulties that that's making in terms of what we can and can't do at the moment and why we need to have the devolution settlement sorted out in that regard.  

In terms of the constituent with the complex PIP problems, my heart goes out to her. I have a surgery full of people who have similar problems very frequently. There's no doubt at all that the austerity programme pursued by the current UK Government is causing untold misery for individuals right across Britain, including in Wales. I disagree with her about the devolution of welfare. I think one of the sole purposes of the UK is for the redistribution of wealth from the south-east and London. It's a shame that it's currently in the hands of a Tory Government who have no such purpose. I'm not sure that administering a system that's appalling with very little of the money and empathy in it would actually ameliorate it very much. The Welsh Government has done an enormous amount, such as we can, to assist people, and I have some sympathy with why it seems attractive to do that and I have a lot of sympathy with the people who are caught up in the system. But I do urge the UK Government to stop its austerity programme because I believe that that political choice is very much at the heart of the discrimination that people with disabilities find themselves in in the UK today.

Photo of Mike Hedges Mike Hedges Labour 2:52, 5 June 2018

Firstly, can I request an update on Welsh Government action to help people working for Virgin Media? It has been reported in the South Wales Evening Post that employees have been refused time off to attend job tests and to attend job interviews, despite the fact that their jobs are seriously under threat. Has the Welsh Government taskforce been given access to Virgin Media and an opportunity to talk to the staff there in order to give them support? A loss of almost 800 jobs anywhere is bound to have a major effect on the local economy.

The second question I have is: have the Welsh Government any plans to implement immigration checks in the NHS in Wales? To refuse treatment to cancer sufferers and children would be massively inhumane. To fail to treat people who have highly contagious diseases would be a danger to each and every one of us living in Wales. So, can the Government give an assurance they're not intending to go down the direction of the NHS in England? 

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:54, 5 June 2018

Yes, on that second one, the Cabinet Secretary for health has made it more than plain that we have absolutely no intention at all of charging for any treatment or care received in Wales for any asylum seeker, including those who have failed to get leave to remain. Welsh Government guidance to NHS Wales sets that out very clearly, and I applaud that policy for the reasons that Mike Hedges set out very succinctly there.

In terms of Virgin Media, the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport, I know, is meeting very soon with Virgin Media senior management to further discuss the plans for closure, the reasons behind the decision, and to offer what support we can to help reverse the decision if at all possible. The taskforce stands ready to support any affected staff if we're not able to reverse that decision. Officials have held recent meetings with both Virgin Media management and employer representatives to assess the current situation and offer assistance where at all appropriate. The collective consultation period, I understand, started on 23 May and will run for a minimum of 45 days. A counter-proposal from the employee representatives aimed at keeping the site open will be considered as part of this, and the Welsh Government has afforded assistance to the employee side in order to help put that counter-proposal together. 

Photo of Neil McEvoy Neil McEvoy Independent 2:56, 5 June 2018

We debated the mud from outside Hinkley Point nuclear power station two weeks ago but we didn't get answers to some really serious questions. So, I want to pose again a question about the testing. In Kosovo, when mud was suspected of being radioactive, they tested using alpha spectrometry, gamma spectrometry and also plasma mass spectrometry. And yet, as to the mud that will be dumped not far from this building—and people 10 miles in-land will be breathing in particles from that mud; that's the scientific evidence that we've been given—why was it only tested using gamma spectrometry? And why on earth won't this Government direct Natural Resources Wales to retest the mud using the three methods that they use in other parts of the world when they suspect that mud is contaminated?

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:57, 5 June 2018

The Member brought this up with the Cabinet Secretary for rural affairs and the environment when she was here in the Chamber the week before recess, and they had a very comprehensive conversation between the two of them in which all of those issues were well covered.

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative

Can I ask for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport on road safety? The leader of the house may be aware that this week is glaucoma awareness week and rates of glaucoma in Wales are pretty significant. Around 38,000 people in Wales suffer from glaucoma, with about 19,000 of those cases being undiagnosed and many of those cases will not be diagnosed until at least 40 per cent of peripheral vision has been lost. A number of Assembly Members sat on a simulator today to experience what it's like to have glaucoma as a driver, and I have to say, it's pretty unsafe. I think everybody crashed the car by the end of their time on the simulator. So, clearly, this is a big problem. I do know that the Welsh Government has a road safety framework. It doesn't mention in there the need for people to have regular eye tests. I know that I've written to the Cabinet Secretary in the past and that he's displayed on some of the roadside signs the need to have eye tests, but can I ask for a statement on the road safety framework, because I do think it needs to be refreshed with reference to eye tests in there so that we can make sure that our roads are as safe as possible?

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:58, 5 June 2018

The Cabinet Secretary is indicating to me that he's happy to work with our colleague the Cabinet Secretary for health to bring forward something as a result of the issues that the Member raises.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you, leader of the house.