Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:49 pm on 5 June 2018.
Can I thank Simon Thomas for his questions? I think the use of hydrogen trains will be seen more widely in the years to come. They're still being tested in certain environments and on certain railways, but it's my view that we'll see far more examples of hydrogen trains on rail networks around the world in the next decade or so. They did not form any part of the bid from the franchise operator. However, should future excess profits be reinvested into new rolling stock, then certainly hydrogen trains could be considered, especially as we roll out metro concepts elsewhere in Wales. Instead, twenty-first century electrification—if you like, next generation electrification—has been utilised, with battery power. Some people still hark back to the days when pylons and cables signalled the future. Well, in a similar way to the way that iPhones and iPads show that you don't need to plug in your Apple computer, so too battery-operated trains show that you don't need to have cables everywhere. The next natural step might well be hydrogen—we don't know what the market will demand as of yet. But, certainly, as we examine the development of hydrogen trains and the reliability of them, it will be a key consideration for any future reinvestment in the rail network and any future reinvestment in rolling stock.
In terms of track access charges, I would be more than happy to write to Members with details of the agreement that was reached with the Secretary of State. I have to say that the Secretary of State and I have reached an agreement following what I think have been very positive discussions that have taken place since September 2017. The Member is absolutely right that the agreement with the Secretary of State addresses what was widely reported last year, where the Welsh Government would have been required to pay the UK Government over £1 billion over the next 15 years in track access charges. We've essentially prevented the Welsh taxpayer from having to shoulder the burden of the best part of £1 billion, and with the end to this adjustment payment we've agreed to a new arrangement, similar to the arrangement that is in place between the franchise operations in England and the Department of Transport, which also takes into account, of course, of the way that the Welsh Government is funded. This means, in turn, that the forecast access charge costs in the bid are what will be paid for the next 15 years. Due to the complications with the existing spending review, two further adjustment payments will be made up until 2020, as the Member identified.
It's worth reiterating that the Secretary of State for Transport has reconfirmed the UK Government will provide £125 million of funding towards the south-east Wales metro and the Department for Transport will fund the Welsh Government for England-only services as well. But I'm perfectly happy to provide more details on the agreement.