Diolch, Llywydd. There was much I found that I agreed with in Neil McEvoy's speech, which I frankly wasn't expecting. But he listed a large number of things with which I fundamentally agree also, and much that Llyr just said I also fundmentally agree with. But we do have a fundamental political disagreement around independence. I do not agree that Wales would be better independent. I take the view, as does the Welsh Government, that the devolutionary route inside the United Kingdom, and in my preference, inside Europe, is a better route. But I fundamentally agree with many of the ideas that came forward in the speech, and particularly with Llyr's issues around energy and water.

The Welsh Government's very firm view is that the devolution settlement is a process, and that there is much more to do in terms of what Wales should be able to decide here. But I do think fundamentally that being part of the United Kingdom benefits our economy in fundamental ways, and most of the ways that it benefits our economy are because it has always been redistributive. Wales contributed an enormous amount of its wealth to the success of the United Kingdom, and in particular London and the south-east as the trading capitals over the years, and it's only right and proper, in my view, that much of that success should be redistributed back to Wales when it needs it.

I think that's the fundamental political difference. I don't disagree at all with the issues around energy and water. The Government here is very keen to have the powers necessary to do a lot of really interesting, innovative, socially acceptable things with power and water. Neil McEvoy listed quite a few things that I also agreed with in terms of what we could do in Wales, and I would say, actually, that we're already doing quite a lot of the things that Neil McEvoy lists. I'm sure he won't agree with me on that, but I think that, for example, we've had huge success with inward investment here, and a large amount of that success is because of the speed and rapidity with which we respond to business need—one of the things that you mentioned, for example.

There are a number of other successes that we have had, Llywydd, and I think many of the people in this room now, and the wider Welsh public, would agree with that. But the wider Welsh public has not agreed in previous opinion polls—although I agree it hasn't been put to a referendum—that independence would be beneficial for Wales at this time. I think the devolution approach has been brilliant so far. I was firmly in favour of it when it failed back in the 1970s, which I'm showing my age over, and I was delighted when devolution finally took its rightful place here in Wales with the establishment of the Assembly. The journey so far has been a good one. There are issues with the current devolution settlement that we're all familiar with—the ragged edges around energy, some of the water things that people suggested, some of the issues that Neil McEvoy suggested around travel, for example, and some of the issues where the settlement is difficult to understand for the people of Wales, as to why we can and can't do some things. 

I know, Llywydd, that you're very keen on the justice commission that we're looking at. As everyone knows, the Government has asked that we consider the devolution of criminal justice policy in particular, and I am particularly myself interested in that, because what's been able to be done in Scotland around sentencing policy and rehabilitation of offenders is really interesting. So, when you can come away from some of the sentencing policy the current UK Tory Government has, which I think is highly inadvisable and all the evidence shows doesn't work, and come to a much more socially progressive system, you get a much better result for your people. I'd very much like to see that devolved.

But we do have successful things in terms of foreign policy as well—our successful Wales for Africa programme. For more than a decade now, we've had strong reciprocal relationships with countries throughout sub-Saharan Africa, and the Welsh Government has supported and encouraged people to get involved with links and projects for our Wales for Africa programme. We are very keen to build on that success and not reject that achievement and start again.

We continue to play a significant part in the union of the United Kingdom and we continue to be active participant in the European union of the future. I hope that we can reach a settlement, and Wales has been very instrumental in the negotiations for this, which will allow us to have a good constitutional framework both in the UK and in Europe. It doesn't mean the constitutional status quo is fine. I don't think the constitutional status quo of our existing relationship with the European Union is fine, for example, and that dichotomy that we had, in Europe or out, as if that was the only choice, is one of our difficulties.

I do think that the fact that this debate is framed in that black and white way is a difficult thing. I think it's a more fluid conversation about what sovereignty actually might mean for bottom-up democracy, as Neil McEvoy said. It's not necessarily full independence for each individual country. He mentioned the United States of America and the constitution of the States, but of course they have come together in a federation to give them strength in the world, and that's the devolutionary settlement, the federal federation settlement, that I and the Government would prefer.

We've set out those proposals many times in this Chamber, so I won't rehearse them now, but we will continue to look forward as a successful part of the union of the United Kingdom and we'll focus our attention, our resources and our abilities for the real challenges like Brexit, which we face in the coming years. I don't think we should deflect attention at this stage in talking about the break-up of the United Kingdom. We should be concentrating our efforts on our ability to stay united together inside the European Union, in my personal view.