We need to be much more proactive, and Ynni Cymru, as we've heard, is one particular vehicle that we can and should utilise to make some of this happen. And, of course, state-controlled energy isn't unfamiliar to the market. It certainly isn't unfamiliar to us here in the UK. I suppose EDF is the most famous company—or infamous, maybe, depending what you think—but it's French owned, or 85 per cent state owned. The French state has that share in the company. But there are wholly state-owned companies as well, such as Vattenfall in Sweden and Statkraft in Norway.

Simon Thomas was talking about the potential that we have in Wales of taking a stake in the lagoon. Well, that is exactly why Statkraft was established: it wasn't just to generate a profit for the citizens of that country, it was actually to protect their natural resources from the exploitation that they were seeing coming from multinational companies, and they wanted not only to protect them, but if they were going to be used, for them to be used sustainably, to generate income and to be used in the interests of their people. And of course they still entered into joint ventures with private companies—of course they did—but that was done on their terms, so the infrastructure, for example, reverted to state ownership after a certain number of years. Any research and development; any innovation; any intellectual property was either owned by the state or jointly owned by the state, so they could then utilise that to pioneer the next generation of opportunities and have that first move and advantage that we desperately want to realise with the lagoon potential here in Wales. Of course, the glory is that it would be the Welsh people who would be the shareholders of this venture.

And that not-for-profit model, of course, in terms of utilising our natural resources isn't unfamiliar to us here in Wales in terms of water, is it? Dŵr Cymru. Welsh Ministers regularly laud that not-for-profit model as one that we're very proud of, and rightly so, so let's replicate that in this context as well.