The Conservative Member uses—[Interruption.] The Conservative Member uses the fact of austerity as if it's the greatest gift that local government has ever received. Let me say this: there are significant issues facing local government today. Most of them are the result of the financial constraints that they face, but not all of them. Welsh local government has, at many times, been clear in itself that 22 local authorities is too many and that it is not sustainable. They've said that on a number of occasions. Now, what we have to do is look to a way forward.

Now, I've heard no response from the Conservative spokesperson on a positive way forward. It's the easiest thing in the world to read the newspapers to Members of the National Assembly, but I would suggest that it's an inadequate response to the challenges facing us. Now, I have said very, very clearly that I want to see a positive debate. I want to see an enriching debate. I want to see a debate about how we devolve powers across Wales and how we empower local authorities and how we empower citizens. And I'll be absolutely clear, as I was in an earlier answer to the Member for Arfon, that it is not politicians, whether in county halls or in this place, that own the governance of our country; it is the people of this country that own the governance of this country.