6. Statement by the Leader of the House: Enabling Gypsies, Roma and Travellers

– in the Senedd at 4:21 pm on 26 June 2018.

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Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 4:21, 26 June 2018

Item 6 on the agenda is a statement by the leader of the house on 'Enabling Gypsies, Roma and Travellers'. I call on Julie James to make that statement—Julie. 

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Today we are publishing our 'Enabling Gypsies, Roma and Travellers' plan, which sets out our commitments to improving equality of opportunity and narrowing gaps in outcomes experienced by all people covered by our plan. The plan seeks to demonstrate the breadth of actions this Government is undertaking to enable individuals from our communities to fulfil their potential and participate in community life.

We have called our new plan 'Enabling Gypsies, Roma and Travellers' in recognition of two key themes. First, Gypsies, Roma and Travellers often possess highly developed skills and experience, distinct and valuable perspectives and a strong entrepreneurial ethic. Our systems and processes are not always as inclusive as we would like, leading to unfulfilled potential for individuals and society as a whole. We want to ensure that we enable everyone in our communities to fulfil their potential through more inclusive processes and better understanding of opportunities. Secondly, we wanted to reflect the diversity of cultures and ethnicities within the group of individuals that other Governments might simply call Travellers. This term can include many different groups and we recognise that there can be profound cultural differences between some individuals. These groups include Romani Gypsies, Irish Travellers, Roma or New Travellers. This diversity is important to community members and it was important that we reflect this in our plan. Despite these differences, groups often experience similar issues such as discrimination, marginalisation, poorer health or educational outcomes and a need for better advice and advocacy support. The late Czech President Václav Havel once famously described the treatment of Gypsies as the litmus test for a civil society. We must ensure we deliver on our commitment to Gypsies, Roma and Travellers if we are to be a fair and just society.

This plan replaces the 'Travelling to a Better Future' framework for action and delivery plan, which was originally published in 2011. 'Travelling to a Better Future' was the UK’s first strategy aimed specifically at improving outcomes experienced by Gypsies and Travellers. As we publish our new plan, we are still the only nation in the UK with a dedicated plan for supporting our communities. Since 2011, we have made good progress in a number of areas, but there is still much to do. We have legislated to ensure that residents of local authority Gypsy and Traveller sites have security of tenure and to ensure local authorities properly assess the need for additional sites in their area. We have invested approximately £18 million in site development and refurbishment and we have committed to an additional £20.3 million by the end of 2021. Although it is slower than we would like, genuine progress is being made and we will continue to drive this forward. Between 2014 and 2021 we expect to have funded more than 200 new pitches, compared to only a handful in the period between 1997 and 2014—a major achievement.

We also have more pupils from these backgrounds on the school roll than ever before, which is crucial to ensuring members of communities can access opportunities throughout their lives and that discrimination is challenged. Educational attainment still lags behind other groups and there is more to be done to ensure schools and colleges are inclusive environments and communities see the benefit of a secondary-age education. We know that Gypsies and Travellers also experience poorer health outcomes than other groups, and we are working to change this. All health boards should be undertaking Gypsy and Traveller community health needs assessments to better understand the health profile of their local communities and target interventions appropriately. We are also introducing a Gypsy and Traveller ethnic health category into NHS data collection to enable us to better understand the outcomes experienced by our communities over time.

The availability of sites is a major issue that can prevent Gypsies and Travellers accessing sustainable accommodation and impact on community cohesion. Today, we are also publishing a new planning circular, which replaces our previous circulars relating to Gypsy and Traveller sites. The circular ensures the consideration of Gypsy and Traveller sites through the planning system is reflective of updates to legislation and wider Welsh Government guidance on Gypsies and Travellers over recent years, including provisions in the Housing (Wales) Act 2014. In addition to these issues, the new plan focuses on advice and advocacy support, challenging discrimination and hate crime, improving the employability of individuals, promoting essential skills training, and other issues.

The new plan also includes the Roma community for the first time. Although we received mixed views about including this community in the plan, we felt that it was appropriate to do so, whilst emphasising the important distinctions between the communities. Roma and Romani Gypsies regularly get confused in media reporting, but they often have different cultures, language, accommodation preferences and religion, and are diverse in other ways as well. However, these groups are united by a common ancestry and both experience engrained stereotypes and discrimination. Both groups are marginalised within our society and experience barriers to fulfilling their true potential.

In developing the actions, we have sought to prevent the most harmful problems experienced by Gypsies, Roma and Travellers. These include homelessness, poor health, poor accommodation and hate crime. We have already made encouraging progress in some of these areas, but there is much work still to be done to improve outcomes. The plan forms an important part of a long-term aim to ensure that our communities can achieve equal opportunities and fulfil their potential. The plan is also a statement of our continuing focus on fostering good relations between these groups and wider society. We are currently within Gypsy, Roma and Traveller History Month, and I want to recognise the achievements of our communities and their continuing positive contributions to Welsh society. They are, and will remain, welcome in Wales.

In this document, we set out what the Welsh Government will do to provide better community cohesion and equal opportunities, but there are many other organisations and individuals who can also play a role in this. For example, we will encourage the media to undertake more balanced reporting that promotes understanding. We will also encourage local authorities to be proportionate in their decision making in relation to resolving unauthorised encampments. Public bodies, decision makers and opinion shapers all need to be mindful of their responsibilities with regard to Gypsies, Roma and Travellers. Discrimination against these communities is often considered to be the last acceptable form of racism, and we must challenge this wherever we identify it.

Finally, I want to make it clear that this plan is not about the Welsh Government seeking to make special arrangements to support our communities. Instead, the plan and actions within are about ensuring our society is inclusive of everyone to enable a diversity of culture and perspectives to thrive. A Wales that values and supports our minority communities to participate equally—especially those who have been part of our society for almost 500 years—will be stronger as a result. We all have a responsibility to work together to eliminate all forms of discrimination, and so I look forward to working with you to ensure this new plan is a success. Diolch.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 4:28, 26 June 2018

As I said here in January, everyone will be disadvantaged until we identify and meet the accommodation needs of Gypsies, Travellers and Roma, enabling the provision of authorised residential and transit sites. It can't be acceptable that, according to the 2011 census, 62 per cent of Gypsies, Roma and Travellers in Wales have no qualifications, 51 per cent in England and Wales were in employment compared to 73 per cent overall, and just 70 per cent described themselves as being in good health, compared with 81 per cent in England and Wales overall.

In your statement, you rightly say we want to reflect the diversity of cultures and ethnicities. What consideration, looking back, have you given to the 2006 Pat Niner report on the accommodation needs of Gypsies and Travellers in Wales, commissioned by the then Welsh Government? I think Jane Hutt launched it, as I recall, in Llandrindod Wells, and I was the only AM present to watch her do it. But in addition to many of the issues you highlight, they identified that those diverse communities also travelled over specified geographical areas that didn't match the borders that the rest of us live by, whether those were county borders or national borders. So, what consideration have you given as you go forward to developing an approach with the communities themselves and the different authorities across those borders, so that they may collectively agree and deliver on the needs of communities, who, by definition, are moving around across that area?

You refer to more pupils from these backgrounds being on the school roll than ever before. I think before I've raised with you the concern that was raised in Flintshire over John Summers High School, when the local Gypsy/Traveller community stated that their views had not been reflected in the consultation document that led to the closure of the school, where the school had almost uniquely in the region developed trust with the community. They became part of the same wider community. The children came to school, were passing exams, doing well, achieving, but the community themselves stated that that could be compromised, or would be compromised if the school closed, which it did. Going forward, possibly in discussion with your colleague the education Secretary, what consideration are you giving to introduce or implement measures to prevent that happening again and ensure that the community have a central voice where they might be impacted in such a critical way?

In 2017 we know the Welsh Government launched the 'Enabling Gypsies, Roma and Travellers' consultation. How do you respond to the statement by respondents to that, that the plan was too broad with not enough actions able to evidence how they would be realistically achieved, with one respondent saying the plan was not new but a collection of actions from other existing plans, to the Tros Gynnal Plant consultation, where respondents said that while a new plan was a good idea, they were still to be convinced whether such strategies would actually make a difference to their everyday lives, and the launch of the 'Travelling to Better Health' document in 2017 to increase confidence in the health system, where respondents in one local health board were found to have received discriminatory treatment, including being unable to secure an on-call appointment with their GP, and midwives not visiting a site for antenatal check-ups?

Obviously, you're very familiar with the situation in Bangor Back Lane in Conwy, which we both visited, and your intervention has helped them take forward action on the sound mitigation fence. But they have also subsequently written to your colleague the economy and transport Secretary regarding the road surface, where they understand that this may not be completed until as late as October 2022. In consequence, because they believe promises by the council at the time when the Welsh Government funding was provided have been breached, they are suffering physically and mentally from the noise and stress, receiving in-patient hospital treatment in certain cases. And they've written to the Cabinet Secretary seeking a detailed plan of action from the Welsh Government to resolve the matter to the residents' satisfaction. I don't know whether you're familiar with that, but if you are, I wonder if you could update me; if you're not, I'd be grateful if you could pursue that. 

And the final point I wanted to raise—it's something that was highlighted—and I'll give an example in Flintshire, although it's not unique to Flintshire. In 2011, obligations to meet the need for Gypsy and Traveller accommodation sites led to the granting of temporary planning permission for five years for a site because of assurances made to the planning inspector by the council that within such a period, the need would be met by Flintshire. But because it wasn't, Flintshire granted further temporary permission for five years, even though it's widely recognised that the site isn't suitable for a permanent site, then, subsequently, the granting of temporary planning permission was quashed in court because Flintshire had failed to fulfil its responsibility to deliver an alternative provision in accordance with the legislation. So, in such circumstances, what powers does the Welsh Government have to intervene? I don't know whether you can comment on this individual case, but how can you influence the situation when something appears to have gone so wrong that it's ended up in court twice for determination?

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 4:34, 26 June 2018

Well, yes, thank you for that series of remarks; I'll do my best to cover them off. In terms of the powers of the Welsh Government, we don't have intervention powers in that way, but I know that Mark Isherwood is aware that I'm visiting every local authority and site around Wales, and I've already had one discussion with Flintshire. What we seek to do is develop a plan together to make sure that sites are brought forward that we can help fund through our capital grant programme and so on. So, we're very much in conversation, but we don't have a direct power to direct them, for example. And I'm not speaking particularly of that authority, but any authority. So, we very much work with the local authorities to identify suitable sites, and that leads me on to the point about a network of transit sites. We very much want to see the development of a network of transit sites across Wales by 2021. We've got five areas identified with a need for transit sites and we are keen to see these developed to support the Gypsy and Traveller way of life, whilst avoiding inappropriate encampments. The Member is quite right—we know what the geographical travelling arrangements are and we're working with the authorities along the affected routes to make sure that we can get the best outcome for that, and we are planning discussions across the border, because, of course, many families cross between England and Wales, and, indeed, some families move up to Scotland and across to Ireland as well. So, we are very much aware of the need to develop the transit-site system.

We've just responded to a consultation from the UK Government on a review of unauthorised camping legislation. I was a little dismayed by the tone of that, I have to say, but we're awaiting the outcome of that consultation before reconsidering whether our managing unauthorised camping guidance is still fit for purpose, and we'll be looking to reissue that, with a view, as I say, to facilitate a way of life whilst making sure that inappropriate encampments, which can be harmful for the occupiers and the surroundings, are not tolerated. But it's not the case for all encampments, and where transit sites are created, it's not always proportionate or necessary to relocate other encampments, so we want to develop a system that enables proper consideration of the rights of all members of the community and ensures that encampments can be resolved with common humanity and consistency. So, as I say, Deputy Presiding Officer, I was a little concerned about the tone of the recent UK consultation, but we have responded in that vein. I know the Member takes a very keen interest in that. 

We've also been very aware of the education arrangements. We're looking to make sure that local authorities, in considering their duties, do take issues of that sort into account, ultimately. School closure issues are a matter for the local authority, but the guidance does include an emphasis on both NHS and education arrangements. What we're looking for is flexibility of arrangements, because with a travelling lifestyle, obviously you might need to attend a number of different establishments, as well as for those who are in more settled pitches. So, there are a range of outcomes that we're looking for in that regard. 

In terms of the Back Bangor Lane, I did indeed visit the site, and I know the Member is aware of that. I am aware of the issue around the road resurfacing and I'm in conversation with the Cabinet Secretary about what can be done—it's a very complicated area, as I know the Member knows—to make sure that we get the speediest possible response to the road-noise issue that he highlights.

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru 4:38, 26 June 2018

(Translated)

Thank you for the statement. I have had a quick glimpse at the 'Enabling Gypsies, Roma and Travellers' plan, and I do congratulate you on certain aspects of the plan, because it does include specific actions and timetables, particularly in terms of providing sites. Clearly, some progress has been made in that area. In the plan you say this:

'we have driven forward a greater focus on Gypsy and Traveller site provision. This reflects an understanding that many of the other issues experienced by Gypsy and Traveller communities arise from, or are exacerbated by, the lack of access to appropriate accommodation.'

I agree entirely with you on that. There is evidence that local authorities have responded to the challenge of creating new sites and have also identified sites in their LDPs. It’s not easy, of course, partly because of some public attitudes and prejudices, and councils are to be congratulated, generally speaking, on their efforts.

I would like your views on the importance of designing these sites appropriately. Do you agree with me that we need to do that in a meaningful way, jointly with the community, in order to respond to some of the main challenges facing that community? I think it’s important that sufficient investment is provided for creating these sites, because that can be more cost-effective and can save money for public services ultimately.

So, in considering new sites and upgrading existing sites, it is important that we give some consideration to design, because, for example, design can tackle some health problems among this community. This community is five times more likely to develop health problems as compared to wider society, but the evidence may be few and far between in terms of the facilities on these sites being designed so that it would be possible to hold clinics on site. Having appropriate accommodation for visits from health professionals could make a world of difference in providing vaccinations for very young children—just one example of something that can happen in an on-site clinic, and also in terms of education facilities, particularly on some of the larger sites.

Your plan states that we need to ensure that every current site is fit for purpose. I would argue, therefore, that we need to upgrade many of those current sites. In my experience of visiting a few permanent sites, the facilities are a long way from being appropriate. Very often, the accommodation is far too close together, the washing facilities aren’t up to standards, and there aren’t appropriate play areas for children.

So, it’s clear that there’s been a great deal of focus to date on creating appropriate accommodation, and that’s crucial, of course, but I also believe that we now need to move forward to address some of the main problems: employment and skills, health and education. And perhaps the plan isn’t as clear or as ambitious as it could be in those areas.

In terms of employment and skills, there’s talk that the Government's current plans need to provide services to the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller community, but we must remember that this community faces different challenges, and we may need more tailored plans for them.

In terms of education, I note in the plan that there isn’t a set of specific actions in order to enhance the achievements of these children and young people. There is talk of tackling bullying and learning English, which, of course, is important, but we need an emphasis on raising expectations and better attainment too, particularly among girls in this community. So, while I congratulate you on certain aspects of this plan, may I ask a question at the end here? Do you agree, in moving forward, that we need more work and more ambition on the parts of the plan that deal with education, health, employment and skills, and that we should place more focus on those aspects for the future?

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 4:42, 26 June 2018

Siân Gwenllian accurately captures the complexity of some of the issues that the community faces, and there is an emphasis on good sites, housing, transit sites and maintaining a way of life, whilst also giving people the essential decencies of human life. I just want to emphasise, Deputy Presiding Officer, that our capital grants are available to upgrade older sites with smaller amenity blocks, for example. I also want to say a huge thank you to all of the members of families from this community who have welcomed me absolutely with open arms and with the most amazing hospitality into their homes to discuss some of these issues. The new amenity blocks are much bigger, they often have day rooms and so on associated with them, and so I just want to emphasise again, as we have done, to all local authorities, that upgrade money is available through the capital grants. We are, of course, in consultation with the communities about what they want and how that works, so that's very important indeed.

We also are ensuring that all the principles of equality and fairness remain central to the delivery of our other plans, which this complements, so I take Siân Gwenllian's point about employability and skills, for example, and some of the other issues that she raised. It'll be central to our new employability plan that we promote the consideration of the needs of all protected groups, and I'll be in discussion with my ministerial colleagues about how best to ensure that that's done, and also that we fund employability schemes specifically in communities that are experiencing particular levels of need, so that they're tailored in a particular way, because this community has very specific requirements. I'm also pleased that the new plan means that Business Wales will be able to support those communities to establish their own businesses, which is very often what they actually want.

I just want to emphasise two other things from Siân Gwenllian's contribution. I've had many conversations with young people as well across these sites, and the issue about play areas comes up. And, again, Deputy Presiding Officer, I'd like to emphasise to local authorities, who I know are aware, but it's worth restating, that capital grant can be used to upgrade such things as play facilities and so on. But we are also keen that we are not creating a completely separate set of amenities. So, where there is a suitable play area for a particular site nearby, we just want to ensure that there are safe access routes to that, safe access routes to schools and so on, so we're not making an isolated community either, unless there are no reasonable-to-reach play facilities.

I've also had it emphasised to me that, sometimes, we have unintended consequences from some of our other policies around safer routes to schools and so on, on which we're working very hard with the specific communities that have raised those issues, because we know that in a community that sometimes faces barriers, we need to make sure that all the barriers under our control are as low as possible to ensure continued participation in education and skills training and so on. So, it's a complex area, and we very much have the wishes and desires of the communities that we're seeking to assist at the centre of our plan.

Photo of Michelle Brown Michelle Brown UKIP 4:46, 26 June 2018

Thank you for your statement, leader of the house, and for the announcement of your new plan. I must say at the outset that I've always had a great deal of sympathy for the Traveller, Gypsy, Roma and other such communities—I think they've been treated very badly over the years. Successive Governments have made their way of life all but impossible, removing traditional sites, stripping away common land, and bringing them into conflict with the communities that they travel through and they want to settle temporarily in. So, I therefore welcome your efforts to support those communities and facilitate that way of life.

At the end of the day, we want to support people's individual choices—as long as they don't harm anybody else—and I think, you know, the support that you're trying to offer the Traveller and Gypsy community is commendable, particularly with the attempt to provide the camping sites for them, and winter stop-overs for show people, et cetera. 

I'm also glad to see an intended emphasis on there being a person-centred approach. These communities may be distinct in general terms from others, but every community is made up of individuals with their own particular needs, so I'm really pleased to see Welsh Government recognising that. 

I'm also happy to see Welsh Government talking about the integration of Gypsy, Roma and other Traveller communities. As I've said, the actions of Governments and local authorities over the years have served to divide those communities from others, and everything that can be done to integrate the two, to get these different communities talking to one another, co-operating with one another and understanding one another, is all to the good, so I welcome your objective of integration. But can you give us details of the work that will be done to foster relations between the Traveller communities and local people?

I note that the newest plan replaces one published in 2011. Can the leader of the house summarise the lessons learned from the implementation of the previous plan? What were the successes of that plan? What were the failures? And how are you building on that experience for this new plan, and what are you going to do going forward? The leader of the house says that progress has been slower than she'd like. Where do you think these impediments to progress are coming from? What measures are you taking, in conjunction with local authorities, educational establishments and the health service as well, to overcome those impediments and achieve the very laudable objectives of the last plan and this new one?

And then, turning to the educational chances of children from Traveller, Roma and Gypsy communities, I note that you admit—I think everybody would probably agree with you—that the performance of these children still lags behind others and that's not acceptable. It's very well noting this, but it's not a new problem, and it's been highlighted before. Promises have been made to address the problem, but what practical measures are you now going to be putting in place to encourage engagement with education and attendance at school, in particular for girls from Traveller and Roma communities? I mean, sometimes girls need additional help. Thank you.

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 4:49, 26 June 2018

Thank you very much for that. You're rightly highlighting some of the complexities of dealing with a range of people with different ways of life, different expectations and different outcomes that each particular community wants. I'll try and cover off some of those.

I should have said in response to Siân Gwenllian—Michelle Brown has just touched on it as well—that actually many of the communities want to develop their own sites, and so we've worked very hard with local authorities and planning departments to facilitate that, where at all possible. So, although there are local authority-provided sites, many members of the community want to develop their own sites, and we've worked very hard to ensure that.

You asked about some of the barriers, and I did mention the transit sites. There have been particular difficulties in developing transit sites because of local authority boundaries, which are particularly unhelpful in some areas. So, we're working very hard with a range of local authorities and, as Mark Isherwood pointed out, along a known cycle of transit to make sure that we can put that in place, but that has been slower than we would have liked. We're putting a renewed emphasis on some of that.

In terms of some of the other things, we're working very hard for inclusion and to develop different ways of working so that, if you have somebody with a travelling lifestyle, then you have to have flexible ways of ensuring that they stay connected. So, we're looking at all of the ways that we can do that, to ensure that we can accept swift enrolment in local schools, for example, or with GP practices, and we're working very hard on that.

Deputy Presiding Officer, I think it's extremely important as well, as Michelle Brown touched on it, just to say that we know that many Gypsy and Traveller people still experience a level of hate crime and other discrimination, which is completely unacceptable, and I just want to urge anyone affected by hate crime to report and seek support by contacting their local police on 101, or 999 if it's an emergency; and just to highlight that we fund Victim Support Cymru to provide emotional, practical and advocacy support for anyone affected by any one of those issues.

We also fund, as Michelle Brown asked, the Travelling Ahead project to provide support to Gypsy and Travellers under three separate themes, one of which is anti-discrimination. Travelling Ahead is the third-party reporting centre to support Gypsies and Travellers to build confidence to report crimes that they experience in this way. We also fund eight regional community cohesion co-ordinators across Wales, whose work plan includes consideration of Gypsy and Traveller communities, and they co-ordinate support for public understanding of issues around site development. They produce myth-busting materials and provide training to elected members in local authorities who are looking at plans to support Gypsy/Traveller communities.

Photo of Jenny Rathbone Jenny Rathbone Labour 4:52, 26 June 2018

Thank you, leader of the house, for your statement. I think it's very heartening to hear that we've got cross-party support for this plan, because I think that's incredibly important. As you say, this is a real litmus test of whether or not we're a civilised society. You also point out that discrimination against these communities is considered to be the last acceptable form of racism, and clearly we need to tackle that.

I'm interested that you are encouraging people to report any discrimination that they're suffering to the police. I was a little bit disturbed to read about a survey done by the Traveller movement recently, with various police forces, about the attitudes amongst some police forces and the lack of due regard for their public sector equality duties in relation to the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities. This survey and other issues that have been uncovered are going to be presented to the National Police Chiefs Council this Friday. I've no idea whether any of the Welsh police forces have been involved, but clearly, were there to be any causes for concern, we would need to pick that up. I think it's particularly important at this time, when Gypsy, Roma and Travellers are being harassed across Europe, particularly, unfortunately, in Italy most recently, where there are even attempts at ethnic cleansing, which is very disturbing.

I just want to now turn to the important points you're making about ensuring that Gypsies, Travellers and Roma are doing well in education, because I do recall that the achievement amongst Gypsies and Travellers is notably worse than for any other ethnic minority group. I just want to highlight the excellent work being done at Cathays High School, which is actually in Julie Morgan's constituency, but it's on the edge of mine, and many of them actually live in Cardiff Central. Patrik Bandy is a Czech Roma, who joined Cathays High School in year 8. He achieved A and A* in art and design and textiles at GCSE. He then went on to take three A-levels, and then he had numerous universities that wanted to give him a place because of the excellence of his work. He's just completed his first year at Cardiff Metropolitan University, and he's already put on fashion shows, and he's clearly going to be somebody we're going to hear about in the future. 

Secondly, Cynthia Kandurova is a Czech Roma who is currently excelling at A-level English as well as health and social care, and she's hoping to read English literature at university in the future. I think this reflects the really great work being done by teachers at Cathays High School, backed up by the minority ethnic grant. So, I wondered what conversations you've had with the Cabinet Secretary for Education about the continuance of the minority ethnic achievement grant, because I think it's really, really important—particularly if we've got pupils coming in in-year, we do need to input extra support for them to ensure they settle down in their education

I just want to ask if there are any local authorities that are resisting establishing new sites for the Gypsy and Roma Traveller community, because I remember having conversations with Carl Sargeant about this when we were passing the relevant legislation, and he was absolutely adamant that we needed to ensure that there were sites in every local authority, not just the good ones—in every local authority. 

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 4:56, 26 June 2018

Yes, thank you for that insightful range of questions. We are very mindful of the potential impact of Brexit on the rights and status of Roma from other EU member states, and we're obviously working hard to better understand the UK Government's plans to communicate information about the settled status process to particular communities, because these are communities that struggle to get information of the right sort anyway. We want to ensure that we use all the tools at our disposal to ensure that those messages have got out and people have assistance to apply for the status as they are required to do so. But obviously until the UK Government announces how the settled status system will work exactly, there's a potential for unintentionally confusing messages and many in the community are wary of confusing messages from officials in any event. So, we'll want to work very hard indeed to make sure that the contributions made by citizens of other EU member states are recognised, they get the status, and we want them to stay here and thrive with us. So, we want to make sure that that is enabled as much as possible. 

In terms of the education issue, we have provided additional funding this year. Obviously there have been some issues around that. We are working very hard to make sure that we work with all our local authorities to make sure that the money is channelled in a way, but this is the difficulty and the ongoing conversation around hypothecated and unhypothecated funding. We want our local authorities to be able to respond to the needs in their area, and there is a long and complex argument about how local authorities put that together. But we have provided £8.7 million this financial year to assist with that, and we are certainly working very hard with colleagues, Rebecca Evans in particular, on making sure that we have the right guidance in place to support the most marginalised people who benefit from all of those grants.

There are a whole series of other issues around the Housing (Wales) Act 2014. The housing Act has been instrumental in galvanising local authorities and we're very proud of it, but there are issues around whether, if a local authority didn't identify any need in its area because it hasn't got a settled Gypsy, Traveller or Roma population, then some of the issues with transit sites then come into play. As I said, hindsight's a wonderful thing, so we're working very hard to overcome some of those. But at the moment, you have a duty if there's a recognised need, so we're working hard across Wales to ensure that all the needs are correctly identified and we have the capital grant in place to assist with the development of those sites. 

As I said, I've talked already about the regional community cohesion workers, and I just wanted to pay tribute to some of the people who've worked extremely hard with the Gypsy, Roma, Traveller learners. We know that attainment still lags behind, but I do want to pay tribute to the workforce who've worked extremely hard to engage the community and to get the young women in particular engaged in the learning process. I met with Julie Morgan, only the other day, a set of young learners who were certainly not shy of coming forward with some of their concerns. It was a real pleasure, so it's lovely to hear the highlighted examples that you gave of what can be attained when people get the ability to achieve their potential. 

Photo of Julie Morgan Julie Morgan Labour 4:59, 26 June 2018

I'm very pleased that the Welsh Government is continuing its commitment to make Wales an equal society for all, including the most marginalised, as the leader of the house said. I was particularly glad that you started off your statement recognising the strong entrepreneurial spirit that Gypsies, Roma and Travellers have, and the different perspectives, and the fact that there is a diverse range of backgrounds, cultures and languages.

I do think it is the right thing to include Roma in this strategy. I don't know whether you're able to say any more about the discussions you've had about that, because I know it is a complicated issue.

I also welcome the site development and the money that's going to be put in, and I welcome the security of tenure and proposals for transit sites. I'm also pleased that the leader of the house says that the Government wants local authorities to be more proportionate about resolving unauthorised encampments. I had a letter from a young, 15-year-old, Gypsy/Traveller young woman. I don't know whether she sent a letter to the leader of the house as well, but it was a deeply moving letter. She says how 'millions are spent removing Travellers from illegal sites instead of putting into our education. Do you think we would be living on illegal grounds if we were educated, instead of being labelled a tramp, gyppo, pikey and thief before you even know us and try to understand?' That was part of her letter, and I think that, if you look at it through the views of a child, a young person, and see the amount of money that is spent on moving people on—. So, I'm glad that you've said that you're going to encourage local authorities to take a more proportionate response.

So, I think there is progress, which is great, but obviously there are still areas of concern. There are still concerns about the poor health outcomes that have already been mentioned. In the cross-party group, which I chair, we've heard a lot of examples of where Gypsies and Travellers have met prejudice, really, when they're trying to access healthcare, so I think there's a lot more to do there. But it's absolutely vital, I think, that front-line health professionals all receive awareness training and training in equality and cultural awareness, which I know is in the action plan. So, I think it's very important that we do that and that we also are able to measure when it's done and keep track of how it's going.

I also welcome the plan to find a model to fund specialist services for Gypsy, Roma and Traveller women who need specialist support because they're victims of violence, domestic abuse and sexual violence—I think that's very important.

And then, to go on to education, because, of course, education has been raised here a lot this afternoon, we obviously have got the aim of improving educational outcomes. However, there is still a lot of concern amongst the Gypsy/Traveller community and their supporters about what is happening to the Traveller education service, which, it appears, some local authorities are struggling to continue to fund.

I know that the Neath Port Talbot Gypsy, Roma and Traveller education service has a petition about the cuts to the education budget, which are affecting the service. I understand that many staff in local authorities across Wales are facing the threat of redundancy in this service. This service has been so important in supporting Gypsy and Traveller young people, and I think it's really only because of that service that we have made the progress that we have in education.

This young person refers movingly to the help that she's been given by this service, so I don't know whether the leader of the house is able to give any view on that. This young person says, 'My ethnicity—

Photo of Julie Morgan Julie Morgan Labour

Yes, okay. Finally, when I met the Gypsy young people with you, I think the issue was raised about broadband, and I wondered whether you had anything to comment about that.

And then the last question is about Gypsies and Traveller people who live in houses—whether any effort has been made to contact them and to sense what they're feeling.

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 5:04, 26 June 2018

You'd expect nothing less from Julie Morgan than a comprehensive overview of the issues. She's worked tirelessly in this regard all her life, I think, actually, it's fair to say, in a proud family tradition.

On the health issues, we have gone to some trouble to make sure that the plan details how we intend to narrow the gap in health outcomes between Gypsies, Roma, Travellers and the wider population, and that includes both physical and mental health. Therefore, all of the actions in this section will be undertaken with due consideration to both of those aspects, as that was always raised with me in some of the meetings that we've attended together.

There's a specific action within this section that covers the monitoring of local health board completion of health needs assessments, and that these results are then properly fed into the service planning, and I mentioned before about recording the ethnicity in order to be able to track the data, so that we do continue to have good data about whether it's working, and we'll get the required evidence in responding to health needs, including mental health, and demonstrate where the additional action is needed as a result of the gathering of that. We also want to make sure that we have it as central to the plan when we consult the community to make sure that that recording is working properly and to their benefit, so that's a really big part of it. 

In terms of the broadband, I'm delighted to say that we are looking now to see whether we can have good broadband on all of the local authority sites. The young woman, who I was very impressed by, Deputy Presiding Officer, was very vehement to me that, if we want to have flexible arrangements on sites so that people can log in and out of Hwb for education or My Health Online and so on, it was hopeless if the broadband was inadequate. So, I very much took that on board, and we're going to some efforts now to make sure that all of our sites map out where they are with that, and make sure that the broadband is properly extended to cover that. 

The other issue is to make sure that we have the right connections with our Travelling Ahead project to contact all of the people who are in our communities, including the ones who happen to be in settled accommodation at this time. I was very moved by one of the families that offered me an enormous amount of hospitality, about her distress at having to be in 'bricks and mortar', as she calls it, while her daughter was at university, and her desperation to get back out of that as soon as possible. The strength of her feeling was plain. So, we need to make sure that we take into account all of those issues, and I'm very, very determined to do so. 

And, in terms of the learner support, as I said, I wanted to pay tribute to that. We will be working very hard with local authorities to ensure that the additional money we've given them so far goes into the right places, and to understand how they're doing the needs assessments. Because I understand as well from the consultations that we've undertaken that some of the services appear to be under threat, and I don't really see why that should be happening. So, we're going to be looking very carefully to make sure that it doesn't happen, because we are funding that. 

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 5:07, 26 June 2018

And, finally, John Griffiths. 

Photo of John Griffiths John Griffiths Labour

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I do very much agree that it is a test of our new democracy here in Wales how we counter the discrimination and prejudice that Gypsy, Traveller and Roma communities face, and I guess many of us who are familiar with issues around proposed local sites in our constituencies will understand the level of suspicion and, unfortunately, ignorance that often exists. And I just wonder, leader of the house, in terms of the history week and the media effort and perhaps particularly local papers, which can be very useful at getting the positive stories and the positive human interest stories across, how Welsh Government will work with those possibilities and take forward a cohesion strategy to address some of these misunderstandings, which, unfortunately, are quite strong, and tackle some of the, again, misunderstandings around illegal sites, the sorts of points people make, which are, 'Why then do you want to establish a settled site when these people want to travel around and they don't want to be settled?' There are all sorts of understandings that people have that come from folk history, really, that really don't fit in with the way the modern age operates, and the way cultures and communities have moved on. 

Just in terms of the Roma community, I do welcome the focus that's now present. My own experience locally is of schools doing really good work. Lliswerry comprehensive in Newport, for example, has a substantial number of Roma children. They work very well with them and their families. I think it's been found that employing somebody as a bridge, somebody from the Roma community as a bridge, with authority, as it's seen, and the more formal world, can be very useful in terms of communication and getting policies implemented effectively on the ground. And I just wonder whether that experience of what works in some parts of Wales where there are substantial Roma communities is properly evaluated and spread through the medium of Welsh Government.   

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 5:09, 26 June 2018

Yes, that's a very good point that you make there, John Griffiths. We have got some very good examples across Wales of really good engagement with Roma, Gypsy and Traveller communities, and I'm sure we could all name schools across Wales that have done really good work. So, we will be working very hard with colleagues in the education department to make sure we spread that out. And, of course, I just want to say that it's a very central part of our new Donaldson curriculum that people become ethical, informed citizens of the world. So, the Cabinet Secretary for Education and I have ensured that part of that informed citizen theme will be particular modules on Roma, Gypsy and Traveller people. As I said, they are some of the most marginalised and discriminated against people in our society. It's very important that their history is properly understood. We do fund the community cohesion workers to produce myth-busting materials and provide training, in particular to elected members, who have responsibility for putting some of our planning into practice. But I do think it's a very good idea to include media in that and I will certainly take that forward as an excellent suggestion. 

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 5:10, 26 June 2018

Thank you very much, leader of the house.