Yes, and I recognise the point that he makes about Tonyrefail with a group of community fundraisers, and the work in particular of the two Welsh-based charities, being Cariad and Welsh Hearts, but also the British Heart Foundation too are obviously interested in seeing more publicly accessible defibrillators made available.

And that's why the partnership with WAST matters, to understand where they are, so they're actually available when someone needs one, but also understand if there are parts of Wales where there is a gap in provision and, equally, about how public buildings, so that we can invest from the public purse in making sure that there are defibrillators available too.

I should make a point here because, in recent discussions around defibrillators, I've been pretty appalled at the number of defibrillators that are vandalised and taken away. And there is something about supporting the work of people who not just raise funds to have them, and then to see them maintained as well, as indeed I think Cariad and Welsh Hearts do, but actually to make clear that it really is wholly unacceptable for life-saving equipment to be removed and vandalised, as sadly happens far too often.