– in the Senedd at 2:19 pm on 3 July 2018.
The next item of business is the business statement and announcement, and I call on the leader of the house, Julie James.
Diolch, Llywydd. There are two changes to tomorrow's agenda: the time allocated to the Counsel General's oral Assembly questions has been reduced to 30 minutes, and also Business Committee has agreed to postpone the UKIP debate until September.
Business for the next three weeks is shown on the business statement and announcement found amongst the meeting papers available to Members electronically.
Leader of the house, may I ask for a statement on Welsh Government support for concessionary fares in Wales? This week, Newport Transport is introducing changes to bus services in the city. These include the removal of the 10A and 10C bus services altogether, which were used by many elderly passengers living in assisted housing areas in Newport. One of my constituents was told by Newport City Council, and the quote is: the amount of money that Newport receives for concessionary fares has also been reduced, which means that they have to take more in fare revenue from the passengers—quote closed. As my constituent says, 'If you live in an area with a high volume of older people who use bus passes, you're out of luck with your bus service.' Quote closed. Please could we have a statement on the effect of these cuts on bus services in Wales, particularly on the mobility and well-being of the elderly passengers who have seen their services cut and abolished altogether? I think that, not long ago, they looked after us and it's about time that we looked after them, especially in this frail age and old-age period. Thank you.
Well, yes, I agree with the sentiment that Mohammad Asghar expressed at the end of his question there. Obviously, that's why we give concessionary bus travel to older people, because we do agree that they need to have better mobility and so on. The matter of subsidy is a matter for the local authority and the First Minister just answered a question to that effect. I think the very specific point that he raises about his own council is best asked in oral questions to the transport Minister.
There’s already been discussion on the attitude of the owner of Trago Mills towards the Welsh language, and the First Minister, in response to Siân Gwenllian, said very clearly that he didn’t agree and was unhappy with such comments. But I would ask for a statement from the Minister for the Welsh language, or a letter, at least, to Members to explain exactly how this situation arose. This was an investment that was portrayed as an investment in the Merthyr area, and many people are now asking whether this company were given any support to invest in the area, and, if they were supported by Government or the local council, wasn’t respect for the heritage and language of the local community part of that investment?
Further to that—not to rehearse the questions that have already been asked about the legal status of the Welsh language—the attitude of this company towards other minorities, if I may say so, over the years, has also emerged. Something that I don’t want to repeat in this Chamber—some comments about gay people, for example. If this is the price that we have to pay for investment, then it’s worth us retaining our respect and telling these investors where to go, perhaps. But, specifically, I want to understand from Government what the Government’s involvement was with this investment. Has the Minister now contacted Trago Mills and can she share that with us? I know that the language commissioner has done that, but I would like to know what the Government has done about this.
The second issue I want to raise with you is the fact that there is a carbon dioxide shortage at the moment. It’s made the front pages in terms of the shortage of beer for the World Cup, but there is something far more important happening in the food industry at the moment. A shortage of carbon dioxide means that it’s not possible to package meat so that it can remain fresh, or use carbon dioxide as a means of stunning animals—it's not the electrocution method that's used, but carbon dioxide, as a gas, is used now to stun animals, and there is a question of animal welfare arising in that regard. So, could we have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary on the use of carbon dioxide in terms of animal health and food packaging and an assurance that this is still being done to the expected standards in Wales? Secondly, this highlights just how difficult withdrawal from the European Union will be, because this carbon dioxide shortage does reflect the chain through some five factories in Western Europe that produce the gas to the standard that is expected. Is the Welsh Government now having discussions with the Westminster Government in terms of preparing to ensure a sufficient supply before we leave the European Union and post exit?
The Member raises two very important issues. On the Trago Mills issue, I think we all share his outrage, I think is not too strong a word, at some of the language used. I also won't repeat it; it doesn't require the publicity. I will ensure that all Assembly Members are updated, probably by way of letter, as to where we are with that. This company has caused problems wherever it's gone in Britain, I think it's fair to say. I well remember the protests when it set up in Cornwall about the environmental damage that occurred and the damage done to both flora and fauna in that area, so it hasn't covered itself in glory elsewhere in the UK. So, I will ensure that all Assembly Members are updated as to where we are with that.
On the carbon dioxide shortage, the Member raises a series of very good points about that, and, again, I will make sure that all Assembly Members are informed, by way of letter, where we are with the situation, both in terms of animal welfare and in terms of the security of supply as we exit the European Union.
Since the last questions to the leader of the house, we've had the news from Westminster that the five women's prisons they were going to build have been abandoned and, instead, there will be five women's centres, which I think is a matter of great rejoicing. I know the leader of the house will share that with me, because we've campaigned for this for years. So, it does seem a fundamental change of policy, finally recognising the unique situation of women in the justice system. So, would it be possible to have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary responsible about what implications this will have for Wales? Are we likely to have one of these residential centres in Wales and what discussions have taken place with Welsh Ministers about this very welcome change in policy?
Yes, absolutely. Julie Morgan is entirely right, I am delighted that our long campaign to see justice for many of the women in prison for offences generally of poverty, actually, received the right kind of response. The Cabinet Secretary is meeting Ministers at the Ministry of Justice on 18 July to discuss our approach to tackling female offending, including the potential to develop a different approach to the secure female estate for Welsh-domiciled women to ensure that they get the right support in their communities and, if at all possible, are diverted entirely from the prison estate. Once he's had that meeting on 18 July, I'm sure he'll be delighted to update all Assembly Members on how it went.FootnoteLink
Could I, in a sense, support Simon's call for a statement regarding the Trago Mills investment, but also including the confidentiality of correspondence for inward investors? My region benefited from £65 million, I understand, of investment in this site. Its head was condemned by both the Welsh language Minister and the Counsel General for expressing his view regarding bilingual signage. I haven't heard any similar condemnation from anyone in Welsh Government about the leaking of that correspondence in the first place. Do we now have a fit-and-proper-character test for inward investors, and, if so, can we, perhaps, clarify the scope of that? The individual concerned said, at least according to the South Wales Argus, that welcome signs,
'departmental descriptions, directional, welfare and safety signage will...display Welsh and English language', but then said they didn't plan
'to cascade its use a great deal further at present.'
Can Welsh Government clarify what standards are expected in terms of bilingual signage from private businesses? Could we also say if any other inward investor or, indeed, any of my constituents in south-east Wales, questions Welsh language policy, can they also expect to have their confidential correspondence leaked? What impact does the leader of the house think that will have on the willingness of such people to engage with Welsh Government in future? Could we have guidance on exactly what such correspondence—or how egregious views must be in order to be considered offensive, such that they will be leaked in this way? Finally, will there be any inquiry regarding the Welsh Language Commissioner and this leak?
Well, I don't think those are matters for me in the business statement, Mark Reckless. I think you should address them to the Minister responsible.
Leader of the house, as you know, under the Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2016,
'The Welsh Ministers must compile and maintain a list of historic place names in Wales.'
Now, the purpose of this list is to provide access to one central source of historic names in Wales, to raise awareness of the value of historic place names, and to support those who make decisions about names of houses, lakes, mountains, and so on. Now, there is no legal status for the names on this list, of course, even though I tried to ensure that last year, but I lost the vote on having an Act to safeguard historic place names in Wales. Now, recently, we’ve heard about new housing developments such as Regency Park in the Llanilltern area, to the north of Cardiff. The development is close to a sixth century monastery, established by St Illtud, but the developer has chosen an inappropriate name for the development, which has no historic connection to the area at all. There are similar examples of losing historic place names across Wales, and so, as the Act has now been adopted for some time now, will the Minister for culture bring a statement forward to this Chamber, looking at the effectiveness of the register and the work that is being done to promote it? This would also be an opportunity for us all to discuss whether there are other ways in which we can safeguard our heritage and language.
I think the Minister will be providing an update at an appropriate time once the Act has bedded in. As Dai Lloyd said, we did have a bit of a debate at the time that the Act went through about the matter he raises. I'm sure that will be an appropriate point for him to raise it again.
Leader of the house, I'd like to ask for three statements this afternoon, please. I'll do the two easy ones first. The Cabinet Secretary for Local Government and Public Services yesterday issued a statement regarding the concordat that the Welsh Government has reached with the Ministry of Justice. Reading through the concordat, it actually describes mainly functions, but it doesn't rule out the possibility of discussions on a future superprison on Welsh Government-owned land. So, could you ask the Cabinet Secretary to actually bring a statement to the house, so we can ask questions on that concordat, on what it actually means regarding the justice issues that we have fought for for so long in Port Talbot? I want to make sure that what we've achieved to date remains achieved.
On the second point, we're obviously awaiting the White Paper on the future relationship of the UK with the EU. We all await with bated breath. Last week, I was in Brussels talking to many, many individuals over there who expressed deep concern over the failure of being able to get somewhere simply because they didn't know where they were going. Can we have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Finance or the First Minister once that White Paper is published, so we can see and ask questions as to how it affects Wales and what we see as the future as a consequence of that White Paper, so that we ensure, in the very short time we have left before a decision is reached, that we are able to express those views clearly and to have consultations with businesses in particular who have already indicated their concerns over the future relationship with the EU?
Thirdly, the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport has left now, but it would be interesting to have a statement on the steel industry and the agreement that was reached last Friday between ThyssenKrupp AG and Tata. That clearly puts a provision in place for medium-term sustainability until 2026. As has already been stated this afternoon, there'll be no compulsory redundancies before that point, and the upgrade of blast furnace No. 5 will last roughly that period of time. But it is important, when we look at the long-term sustainability of the works, and the future here in Wales, and the long-term impact—. I would like to understand what the Welsh Government's position is on the long-term position of steel in Wales, and how we can support the industry, and in particular the Tata and ThyssenKrupp merger, to ensure that the industry doesn't suffer in 10 years' time, and that it isn't a short-term stop gap to keep people happy now; it is actually something that we've always believed in, which is that there's a future for steel making here in the UK, and particularly here in Wales.
Absolutely, David Rees. Obviously, the First Minister, in First Minister's questions, broadly welcomed the announcement of Tata Steel and ThyssenKrupp on the signing of the definitive agreement, and I'd just like to reiterate that the Government is extremely glad that that's gone through. We also noted that the steel trade unions have stated that they recognise the industrial logic of the partnership and consider it to be the best solution to ensuring the long-term future of Tata Steel's UK operations. This Government is committed to continuing to engage with the company and the trade unions to consider the detail of the announcement and how it might impact on the securing of iron and steel making in Wales over the longer term. The First Minister also mentioned keeping a weather eye on, for example, our export markets and what the tariff situation is and what we can do to support the industry in the meantime.
With regard to the UK operations, as you said, we'll ensure that the commitments in the existing memorandum of understanding with the trade unions are taken into account into the joint venture. We welcome the announcement of the employment pact to 2026, and, indeed, the upgrading of the blast furnace. But be assured that we're still fully engaged with the company at every level, to ensure its continued prosperity and success, and we share the concerns that the Member has expressed on a number of occasions in supporting the steel industry in his constituency.
In terms of the concordat, I think if you have very specific constituency issues to bring up with the Cabinet Secretary, it would be best to bring those up specifically in questions with him. I don't think it's appropriate to bring a general statement on the concordat as we've already got the concordat in public. I don't think he's got anything of other general interest still to say on that. And on the relationship with the EU, we will certainly be bringing forward a number of occasions on which Members will be able to closely question the Ministers involved in those negotiations, to ensure that Wales gets the best possible deal out of the so-called negotiations as we continue.
Can I call for a statement from the Minister responsible for the new childcare offer? I was very pleased to see that the 30 hours of free childcare is going to be extended in different parts of north Wales later on this year from September, including into Conwy, which forms part of my constituency. But, of course, there is one single local authority that is going to be left out of the offer from September of this year, and that's Denbighshire. I have written to the Minister in respect of this matter, but I think it would be beneficial for all Members of the house to have some sort of assurance about this, because there are parents who are concerned that there may be cross-border issues if they are working in one local authority area and trying to make a claim for free childcare in another and how that might impact upon the practicalities of being able to enjoy the benefits of the 30 hours that might be available. So, I think some clarity on that should be afforded, and I would urge the Minister to consider extending the roll-out into Denbighshire from the same date—1 September—as all of the other local authorities in north Wales, to overcome the potential problems. [Interruption.]
Llywydd, I feel as if I'm caught in a conversation between two people here. It's clear you're in correspondence about the issue, and the Minister is indicating to me that he's about to write back out to you. It's obviously a series of pilot programmes; Denbighshire is not the only authority in Wales that's not in the initial tranche. I understand that the Minister is about to write to you and explain exactly where we are with it.
David Rees pipped me to the post on Tata. I want to ask for a statement on the issues with regard to Thyssenkrupp, but also in relation to the investment the Welsh Government has pledged already between Plaid Cymru and Labour. I know that phase 1 has gone ahead. I'd like assurances on the other phases, but also a general statement that will show us what is happening in relation to state aid post Brexit. I know that there are varying issues there, and I know that the First Minister has already indicated on the record to us that there still is disagreement on that with the UK Government. So, a general statement on steel would be beneficial.
Also, if we could have an update from the Cabinet Secretary for health on how the consultation is going with regard to the eating disorders framework. I do welcome it, as I've said previously, but we had a cross-party group meeting recently, and some of those in the health service who were there weren't aware of the consultation happening, so I just wanted an update as to how they are being told that they can engage with the process, because I want as many people in the health service to be involved in the review as possible, so we can have a fully comprehensive analysis of eating disorder services, to get the best deal out of any revised frameworks. So, that would be my second call. Thank you.
The Cabinet Secretary is indicating to me that he's brought it to their attention just this week. We are, of course, extremely concerned that all consultations get the widest possible response. He's indicating to me that he's brought it to renewed attention just this week, so hopefully that will elicit the broad range of responses that Bethan Sayed is quite right in saying we need to have in order to be able to evaluate the policy.
On steel, of course, the large number of us who represent that region have a great deal of interest in the continued strength of the steel industry. A number of statements on the record have been made today about that, and I'm sure that you heard that, alongside Plaid Cymru, we're very keen indeed to make sure that all of the assurances that we've already given are heard loud and clear by the new collaboration.
I wish to return again to the threat of closure by Virgin Media of their facility in Swansea. Can I firstly ask for an update on the Welsh Government support for the main submission to try and save the whole site and the call centre agents, based on their quality and skills? Secondly, can I ask for an update on support for the non-call-centre operational staff, of which there are about 80, who are putting a proposal for an alternative site locally or an expansion of other sites in south Wales?
Thank you for that. The Member is continuing to show his concern for the large number of people who are under threat of redundancy in his constituency and in the Swansea area in general. The Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport met with Virgin Media on 14 June to further discuss the plans for closure and the reasons behind the decision, and to offer what support we can to help reverse that decision. The consultation period commenced on 23 May, and it will run for a minimum of 45 days. We are assisting with a counterproposal from the employer's representatives aimed at keeping the site open, and we're awaiting the outcome of that consultation. Should the plans for closure continue after that consultation, the taskforce will be ready to support affected staff, and that includes discussions with any particular groups of staff who have a specific proposal for parts of the business to be self-standing here in Wales.
As I'm sure you know, emergency teams are working in my area, working extremely hard to extinguish fires that have been caused by the very dry weather. Carmel, Bethesda and Bangor Mountain have been affected, with at least 45 families having to leave their homes. I am extremely grateful to the firefighters and the other emergency services, as well as the communities themselves who have come together to support those who have been affected by these fires. So, can I ask what connection has there been between the Government and local services, and are you confident that they have sufficient resources in order to deal with this crisis in Arfon and elsewhere in Wales?
Turning to local government reform, a few months ago we learned through a blog from the Cabinet Secretary for local government that he was going to proceed with new proposals for the reorganisation of local government, putting aside the proposals in the predecessor Minister's Green Paper on regional collaboration. On Friday, I learned from a tweet from a journalist at the WLGA conference in Llandudno that the Cabinet Secretary for local government was now happy to give up on his reorganisation map, which will come as no surprise to any of us. But with such important statements affecting the way public services are run and delivered for the future, do you not think that we need to think carefully as to whether these announcements should be made on social media? Is that the appropriate means of conveying major policy changes such as these, without a formal written statement to Assembly Members? To me, that undermines the credibility of the Welsh Government, and also the credibility of the Assembly as a whole. So, I would like two statements: one noting the way forward—what next for local government, and what next for the reorganisation—but also I'd like to know what directives there are for Ministers as they present information that is of national significance to the National Assembly.
In terms of the fires, I also want to pay tribute to the staff who have worked tirelessly to ensure the safety of both the countryside and the people using the countryside. And, Llywydd, I repeat the appeals by the fire service for people to be very careful, for example in things such as where they park, to ensure that a hot exhaust pipe is not touching highly flammable grasses, for example, which, in this very dry weather, can cause real issues. I'm sure the Minister will update us on the circumstances once we have a full picture of what's been happening.
In terms of local government reform, my understanding is that the Minister is intending to update the Assembly once the consultation responses have been properly analysed. The conversation he was having was about the conversation that was going on at the WLGA conference, which, of course, is an ongoing consultation.
Leader of the house, I've got two questions. First, tomorrow I'm facilitating a meeting in the Senedd of the Welsh Mesh Survivors group, and it would be helpful to have an update from the Welsh Government on the ministerially directed implementation group announced by the Cabinet Secretary on 8 May, chaired by Tracy Myhill.
Secondly, leader of the house, can you clarify whether the Welsh Government's guidance on the wearing of school uniforms in secondary schools has been updated to respond to these hot weather conditions? With temperatures reaching over 30 degrees over the past week, I'm aware that there are some schools allowing pupils to wear shorts—that's both girls and boys—if preferred by pupils and parents, whilst others are not.
Yes, indeed; the hot weather has been a real pleasure for most of us, but there are some real issues about appropriate responses. School uniform and appearance policies are set by each school headteacher and governing body, but they do give schools the flexibility to relax the rules if they wish, although we would expect some discretion to be used during periods of hot weather by the headteachers. Our guidance on school uniform and appearance policies suggests governing bodies take a flexible approach to basic uniform requirements during hot weather, as opposed to having separate uniforms for winter and summer—so, very much along the lines that Jane Hutt has just remarked on. Clearly, common sense needs to be used in these circumstances so that pupils remain comfortable and can continue with their learning, which is, after all, the overriding priority. I'm sure that headteachers will take that into account.
In terms of the vaginal mesh issue, the priority of the women's health implementation group in the first instance will be to oversee the implementation of recommendations from the vaginal mesh and tape review. We anticipate that the group will consider any recommendations arising from the endometriosis and faecal incontinence reviews in progress. The activities will be directed by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Services on advice from the chief medical officer and chief nursing officer, and will have a central role in providing leadership and strategic direction to ensure an all-Wales approach is in place to help break down barriers and join up pathways between primary, secondary and tertiary care and manage women's health in the community. So, it is a fully rounded approach, which I'm sure we all very much welcome.
Leader of the house, on Wednesday—that's tomorrow—Sarah Champion MP will lead a debate in Westminster on tackling demand for commercial sexual exploitation. It centres on the question of whether the UK should follow the United States and other countries by banning so-called prostitution websites. There's mounting evidence that websites like Vivastreet and AdultWork are enabling a huge rise in sexual exploitation and trafficking of women to the UK for profit, making money by placing ads on behalf of gangs and individuals running networks of women, and many of those women are trafficked from abroad into the UK. Vivastreet operates in 19 countries and is owned by an off-shore holding company in Jersey, and AdultWork is registered in Panama. Could we have a statement, following tomorrow's debate, from the Government on its assessment of online sexual exploitation here and whether Wales will add its weight to the campaign by calling on the UK Government to ban the online pimps and traffickers?
Can I pay tribute to Joyce Watson for her determination, as always, to tackle all forms of violence against women and exploitation, which we fully share in the Welsh Government? Our action through our legislation on violence against women, domestic violence and sexual violence, our work to stop modern slavery and our work with partners to disrupt organised crime all aim to put in place measures that will protect women and girls, and in particular, as Joyce points out, those most vulnerable to exploitation, trafficking and modern slavery. We are very happy to continue to support all action that seeks to ensure that such women are protected, and I'm very happy to write to the Home Office and ensure that we add our weight to the campaign to ensure that protections are adequately in place.
A few weeks ago, I hosted the launch of 'From bumps to babies', an important new report on perinatal mental health in Wales, which was a collaboration between NSPCC, the National Centre for Mental Health and the Mental Health Foundation. This publication, of course, followed the publication of the Children, Young People and Education Committee's report on perinatal mental health. As you'll be aware, one of our key recommendations was that mother and baby provision should be established in south Wales, and provision made for mums in north Wales. At the time of the publication of the report, back in the autumn, the Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee was considering that, but, to date, there seems to have been very little progress. So, I'd like to ask for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary so that we can be updated on this very important provision for mothers.
Yes, the Cabinet Secretary is indicating that he's very happy to write to Members and give us an update.
First, I'd just like to agree entirely with the words of Julie Morgan about the change in policy on women in the criminal justice system—not just for the women, to ensure that they are appropriately helped to rehabilitate, but also for the absolute transformation in the lives of the children of prisoners, who rarely get their needs taken into consideration in the devastation that occurs when women get carted off to prison.
Secondly, I'd just like to add to what Jane Hutt said about the issue of school uniforms in this hot weather. One of the secondary schools in my constituency is insisting that girls wear tights in this weather, which is really bad for their health as well as their concentration. So, it would be useful if the Government could give some guidance on this.
The substantive issue I wanted to raise was around integrated ticketing. I wondered if we could have a statement on that, because the cross-party group on transport heard from the operations director of Transport for Wales, and the statement we were getting was less than categorical that we would go ahead with this. I know how important this is to people across Wales who endeavour to navigate their way from bus to train to bus to get to work, and I think we really do need to have a joined-up policy on this. I think it's pretty crucial to ensure that we are making sure that going by public transport is cheaper than going by car when we're trying to get to work or indeed shopping.
The other issue I wanted to raise, which I don't expect you to have an answer for, but I wondered if we could ask the Government to produce a statement on a fair deal for supply teachers, because many of the agencies that assist headteachers who need to get hold of people in a hurry are continuing to flout the agency worker regulations by using something called the Swedish derogation. There's going to be a march this Saturday from Cardiff Central station to New Directions, which is currently flouting the regulations, and I wonder why the Welsh Government is putting any work their way when they are still flouting the regulations that we currently enjoy through being a member of the European Union.
Yes, on the first issue, on women in prisons, I couldn't agree more. Jenny Rathbone is very much part of the group that has been campaigning for such changes for a long time, and I would just commend to the Chamber the consultation that Mark Drakeford recently announced on preventing councils from imprisoning people for non-payment of council tax, which we know impacts heavily on women and girls, for example, and other such civil offences that really should not result in imprisonment in those circumstances. So, I commend that consultation to Members if they haven't already seen it.
In terms of school uniform, as I've highlighted, there is guidance to say that discretion should be used, and it's worth highlighting that to a school, if the Member is aware of one that's not using its discretion appropriately in this very hot weather.
In terms of the integrated ticketing arrangements, the Cabinet Secretary has emphasised many times that we're very keen on integrated ticketing arrangements that ensure both through-travel and reasonable travel. I'm sure he'll be reiterating that in his next statement on our use of the bus powers that have been discussed several times already today.
In terms of the fair deal for supply teachers, the Member's clearly aware of some specific instances around that company. I suggest she writes to the Cabinet Secretary for Education highlighting that, and perhaps copies it to all of us.
Thank you, leader of the house.