5. What assessment has the Counsel General made of the Welsh Government's legal powers to support a new model for the Swansea bay tidal lagoon? OAQ52446

I thank Mike Hedges for that question. I should say that whilst not in my constituency, constituents in Neath would stand to benefit from any development of this sort, so I will declare an interest insofar as that goes.

The Welsh Government stands ready to consider how it could use its powers to support alternative delivery models that may emerge from the marine energy summit and from the ongoing discussions with regional leaders, referred to in the statement of the Cabinet Secretary on 26 June.

Can I thank you for that response? There has been unanimity amongst those of us who represent the whole of that south-west Wales region, perhaps starting with my colleague and neighbour with the other half of it David Rees, but also the regional Members across party who have given their fullest support. So, this is not a party political comment as such. But a new model for the lagoon is being discussed, not based on the contract for difference, with the UK Government. So, the new model would not involve Westminster's reserved powers. Does the Welsh Government then have additional flexibility to support this method of funding the lagoon?

I thank the Member for that supplementary question. He's right to say, obviously, that there's strong cross-party support in this Assembly and across Wales for the lagoon, which is why it's so disappointing that the UK Government took the decision that it did. As he rightly suggests in his question, the involvement of the UK Government was partly driven by the need for a contract for difference, which obviously is not devolved to Wales, and we don't have competence in the Assembly to set up a comparable regime to the contract for difference regime.

I'm aware, as he is, of the discussions that have been happening, and the press coverage in particular, of an alternative model, which might involve a mechanism other than a contract for difference method for delivery. Obviously, if that were the case, the powers of the Welsh Government would be different from a model where contract for difference is necessary. And subject to a large number of questions around resourcing, and broader questions, Welsh Ministers obviously do have broad, general executive powers to facilitate job creation and economic development, including by way of loans and guarantees and grants and so forth. In fact, those powers were actually the basis of the offer that the First Minister made to support the current proposal for the tidal lagoon. Those would need to be looked at in the context of a particular proposal if that comes forward, a concrete proposal, and obviously, again, in the context of state aid rules. Clearly, we'd need to either establish that there was no state aid or that the aid was compatible with the framework in the legislation. As I say, there isn't, at this point in time, a concrete proposal to evaluate, but he should rest assured that the Government will look at all its powers and consider them in that context if that proposal comes forward. 

As the Counsel General will know, the issue of the tidal lagoon is still very much a live issue, and, clearly, there are a number of possible options being mooted at the moment in terms of how we can possibly salvage this situation. Now, Plaid Cymru has long argued that we should establish a national energy company for Wales, with Wales's natural resources being used to deliver a sustainable and affordable energy supply. Clearly, the national model is one option. There are alternatives. One such suggestion is a local delivery model, led possibly by the city and county of Swansea, but there are also other regional options too. So, given the range of possible delivery options, which need to be explored, to what extent are you supporting the Welsh Government in discussing the legal and the linked financial issues with local government, public bodies and other stakeholders in Wales, and when can we expect the Welsh Government to bring forward a statement on this matter?

I thank the Member for his question and for reminding us of his support for a national energy not-for-profit, I believe, company. As I just said to Mike Hedges, there are clearly, as one knows from what one sees in the press and what discussions are going on, people who are looking creatively at what alternatives might be available to confirm the opportunity that exists in Wales—across Wales, in fact—to use our tidal capacity to generate renewable energy. As I have just said, from my personal point of view, my role will be to advise on the legal powers the Welsh Government have, but, obviously, those conversations, as you will have gleaned from my earlier response—I'm pursuing those discussions.