The Impact of Brexit on Further and Higher Education

1. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd on 10 July 2018.

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Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

1. Will the First Minister make a statement on the impact of Brexit on further and higher education? OAQ52519

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:30, 10 July 2018

(Translated)

We addressed the implications of Brexit for post-compulsory education in our White Paper 'Securing Wales' Future' and identified priorities for negotiations. We continue to press for these priorities in discussions with UK Government officials.

Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru

Last week, in answer to the Plaid Cymru leader here in the Assembly, you told us that you and your Government had no plans for the Welsh NHS if there was to be, as is, of course, increasingly likely now, a 'no deal' Brexit. In fact, your exact words were

'There is no planning for a "no deal" Brexit. It's more like people running around in circles screaming. There are no plans at all for it.'

Now, I'm not sure that's the kind of leadership that the people of Wales expected from somebody who stood on a promise of standing up for Wales, but if you have no plan for the NHS, could you tell us whether that's also the case for Welsh universities and Welsh colleges in the face of a 'no deal' Brexit, and, if it is, when exactly would you expect the HE and FE sector to start running around in circles screaming?

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:31, 10 July 2018

The Member is being mischievous. He knows full well that I was referring to the UK Government and not the Welsh Government—as he knows, but there's the mischief. But he asked a question: what is the situation in terms of what we've done? Well, we have the European advisory group, bringing together business leaders, representatives from universities, trade unions, agriculture, public services, politicians and the third sector. We have a higher education Brexit working group, with senior representatives from the HE and FE sectors. They are providing us with advice on the implications of Brexit for the higher education sector. We have the Council for Economic Renewal Brexit sub-group, with senior business leaders and organisations, chaired by the economy Secretary. We have the environment and rural affairs Brexit round-table stakeholder group, set up after the referendum. That is a forum for engagement and collaboration between the Welsh Government and the food, fisheries, farming, forestry and environment sectors. And you mentioned health. Well, we continue to work with key health and care stakeholders through the main representative bodies, and we're also working directly with specific groups, such as Public Health Wales, the Royal College of Nursing and NHS medical directors, in order for us to understand from them what their challenges are. 

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative 1:32, 10 July 2018

Will the First Minister and his party get behind a deal with the EU on education or anything else? At Chequers, the Prime Minister went a long way towards the sort of Brexit that Labour claims to want. [Interruption.] But instead of welcoming that, they say they'll vote down any deal based on it to try and get a general election instead. Since that approach may lead to our leaving the EU without a deal, will you as First Minister now support the UK Government in accelerating preparations for such an outcome?

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour

Well, Boris Johnson and David Davis stood behind the Prime Minister with a knife and we all saw what they did. I mean, really, this is not the strongest ground for his party to lead on, given the incredible divisions that exist within the Conservative Party. Now, in terms of what the Prime Minister is trying to do, she's trying, I hope, to steer the UK towards a soft Brexit. In that, I will support that general principle. But we need to see more detail. We don't know yet what will be in the trade White Paper; it hasn't been shared with us in its entirety. We don't know that the detail will be. We don't know what the view of the EU will be, but what is absolutely clear is this: that the Conservative Party is absolutely divided. The resignation of two senior Cabinet Secretaries in the space of one day hasn't happened since 1979, I understand. And that shows the depth of the division that exists in Whitehall. It's time really for the Conservative Party to get a grip and show some leadership for this country. 

Photo of Michelle Brown Michelle Brown UKIP 1:34, 10 July 2018

First Minister, the UK has three universities in the global top 10. The rest of the EU has none; they're not even in the top 30. Has the First Minister made any assessment of the impact on EU students, Government and non-governmental agencies and organisations, such as the European Space Agency, were they to lose access to our world-leading academics in educational institutions?

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour

I don't think it works for anybody. The first thing that academics will tell you is they rely absolutely entirely on the ability to work in different universities around the world. And if the UK is seen as self-contained, that will be to the UK's detriment, and if it's seen as unwelcoming, that will be to the UK's detriment. It's absolutely essential that co-operation continues in the future, with schemes such as Erasmus and Horizon 2020 being able to deliver to their fullest extent.