3. Statement by the First Minister: The Legislative Programme

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 2:56 pm on 17 July 2018.

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Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 2:56, 17 July 2018

There were a number of questions there. First of all, the five Bills that we've put forward—they allow us some slack in order for us to be able to free up resource to deal with any Bills, or any other legislation, that will be needed as a result of Brexit. In terms of what the priorities will be, we don't know, because we have no idea what the UK Government wants. I was in Brussels yesterday, and the frustration that is felt there is quite simply this: what does the UK actually want? No-one knows. We knew on the weekend, then it all changed yesterday, and now we still have no idea what the position of the UK Government is. So, we are operating in the dark, in terms of what the final outcome of Brexit is going to be. We don't even know whether there'll be a UK Government by the end of the week, so there needs to be certainty there.

In terms of health, we have, of course, the quality and governance in health and care Bill that I've already mentioned. Transparency and duty of candour, I think, are really important, and they are particularly important so that people have faith that, where mistakes happen, they are then rectified. In terms of health commissioners, I think that the difficulty with having an elected person in a particular area is that they will focus solely on services that are provided to their own constituents. If you have a health commissioner who's elected for, say, ABMU, what is the guarantee that that health commissioner will take any interest at all in what's happening in Hywel Dda? This is the issue. So, there's a great danger that a health commissioner would simply look at what's happening in their own area because it would affect their own electors. So, we're unconvinced that health commissioners would make any real difference.

In terms of air quality, he's right, of course, to emphasise that air quality is important. We have our plans in place. We don't see that there's a need for legislative intervention at this stage. We have, of course, the south Wales metro. It's a great shame that his party didn't support electrification of the main line from Cardiff to Swansea, and a very great shame that his party didn't support—well, that's not fair, as there are those on his benches who supported the tidal lagoon, but his party in London did not support a project that would've created so many jobs and would have improved air quality because of the fact that it was renewable energy that was being created. That has not helped, in terms of making sure that air quality improves.

He asked about a Welsh agriculture Bill. We don't know what's in the UK agriculture Bill yet—we haven't seen it, and I don't suppose that anybody else has seen it in Whitehall. Apparently, it's going to be published in September. Until we've seen it, it's difficult to know exactly what legislative interventions we will need to make. What is not clear at the moment is what happens after 2021. What happens to agricultural subsidies? We've no guarantee that a single penny will come to Wales. Some £260 million of money comes every year to farmers, and not a penny has been guaranteed beyond the date that's already been publicly declared. We can't find that money. What we have said to the UK Government is, 'Put aside an equivalent sum of money and distribute it in exactly the same way as now, until there's agreement between the Governments to change the system if that's needed.' So far, there's been no answer. 

In terms of animal welfare, again, we will work with the UK Parliament where we need to. There have been occasions where we have piggybacked on UK legislation, and where that legislation is uncontroversial, there's no reason why we shouldn't do that in the future—where there is no proven need for there to be separate Welsh legislation and when, in fact, we're in agreement with what's happening across the border. That is something that is done fairly commonly in government.

He mentions the local government Bill. No decisions have been taken in terms of the structure of local government, but, I have to say, is he really saying that Pembrokeshire council has delivered consistently a good service to its citizens? Really? After what the chief executive was paid, after the car that he had, after the failures in education, he sits there and defends it. Come on. He can't do that as far as his constituents are concerned. Now, if he doesn't like what we're proposing, come up with your own ideas. I've heard nothing from the Conservative benches about local government reform. I've heard nothing from the Conservative benches about how we might improve local government—nothing at all. They're within their rights to oppose what we've put forward, but for goodness' sake, have some ideas, put them forward and let's see how those ideas will work.

But I'm flabbergasted that the temporary leader of the opposition thinks that in Pembrokeshire, and in several other authorities in Wales, people have somehow had a consistently good service over many years. Yes, things may have improved, but for goodness' sake, there was a time when it was very, very poor, and it's not the only local authority that has been in that position. I have no doubt there will be others in the future. That's why it's so important to get a grip on this now, and not just be oppositional without coming up with your own ideas. 

He makes the point about value for money. That's a fair point in the RIA system that we have. We always seek to ensure that there is value for money. It's always an open question as to whether legislation is good or not; that depends, I suppose, on your political perspective, and that is for the Assembly to scrutinise.

With regard to his autism Bill, he will, of course, get a full response tomorrow from the Cabinet Secretary.