I'm grateful, Presiding Officer, for the comments. Can I say this? I have never argued for a one-size-fits-all approach to local government reform and never have I argued that, necessarily, significantly large councils are always a good thing. In fact, if you look at a much wider basis than simply Wales, you will see that the councils that were being proposed in the Green Paper are not large themselves. These aren't very large institutions. Many of the local authorities across the border in England are significantly larger than the authorities that were being proposed here, so we're not talking about significantly large institutions.

What I'm concerned about is to create institutions that are sustainable, and I think it's fair to say—and I've heard no argument again this afternoon, and I've certainly heard no argument in the last few months—that the 22 local authorities we currently have in Wales are a sustainable structure. Nobody argues for 22 local authorities. What you tend to find is that people argue for, 'My local authority, and I agree with mergers at the other end of the country.' That's what you tend to find in this debate. I think we need a more mature debate, and I think we need a debate that is rooted on the citizen and rooted in the citizen, not rooted in what might be convenient for politicians and what might be called the political class. So, I think we should root our debate in what is right and proper for the citizen of this country and not what is easiest for ourselves. 

I will not answer the question or give any assurances about the future of the Vale of Glamorgan, Presiding Officer. It's not my place to do so. It seems a little curious to be starting a process of debate and discussion by setting out a whole series of sacred cows at the beginning of that process. I won't do that. What I would seek to do is to say that the Member is absolutely right in his view that this has been going on for some time. It's been going on for nearly 20 years. The point I made—and the Plaid Cymru spokesperson referred to this in her contribution—the point I tried to make in my speech in Llandudno some weeks ago is that there has not been a mature relationship between this place and local government and other parts of the public sector since devolved Government was established in 1999. And it is the responsibility of all parts to ensure that we do develop a more mature relationship. I'm not seeking to place blame for this or to point fingers. What I seek to say is that there has been, over many years, many opportunities and many proposals for change, but for all sorts of different reasons we continue to have this debate, and we will continue— and I'll be very clear on this—we will continue to have this debate, and people who follow us in this place will continue to have this debate, and Ministers in the future will continue to have this debate, because we have not settled these fundamental issues of governance.

Until we do settle these issues of governance, whether there are White Papers or Green Papers, there will always be a country of 3 million people wondering why they are governed by so many different organisations, bodies and institutions, none of whom seem to talk and work effectively together. The people of Wales have a right to expect their elected representatives, in whatever chamber they sit, to take these matters seriously and to find answers to these issues. It is not good enough for any politician of whatever party they represent, or in whatever chamber they sit, simply to wring their hands and complain about other people's solutions. It is incumbent upon all of us to take this matter more seriously than that.

So, I hope what we'll see over the coming months is a public sector reform programme that goes far beyond a dry and sterile debate about lines on maps or the merger or not of individual authorities, but a fundamental review of how the public sector operates in Wales, how we deliver public services in Wales, and how we ensure that all our public services in Wales remain rooted in citizenship, rooted in active citizenship and empowered citizenship.