Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 6:34 pm on 17 July 2018.
Thank you very much indeed. I do only have one question, but a very small preamble, which is that this report is the culmination of two and a half years of detailed work. Several thousand documents, some previously unpublished, have been reviewed by the team, 200 interviews with current and former staff and current and recent service users, across the six counties of north Wales, and it's four and a half years, as you yourself say in your statement, since the concerns were first raised. In that time, there have been three joint reviews of governance, in 2013, 2014 and 2017. Healthcare Inspectorate Wales have reported on the Betsi Cadwaladr health board, as well as the Wales Audit Office, the NHS delivery unit and various royal colleges. There has been targeted intervention since 2014-15, and special measures from 2015. I think it's an absolute disgrace that it has taken so long for this to turn around, and so my one question to you is: how much longer will you give them to make real, sustained improvement? Before you answer, I will tell you, as somebody who has run businesses that have been in awful trouble and tried to rescue them—some successfully, some not so—you can't just answer with, 'As long as it takes', because there comes a point when the critical mass spills over. You have to have an end game, and I'm not confident, Cabinet Secretary, that there is an end game of when you expect to see—your words, not mine—real sustained improvement. Because as Llyr Huws Gruffydd said, we shouldn't be having this discussion again.