6. Debate on the General Principles of the Childcare Funding (Wales) Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:35 pm on 18 September 2018.

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Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour 4:35, 18 September 2018

Diolch, Dirprwy Llywydd, and I move the motion.

I'm very pleased to open this debate on the general principles of the Childcare Funding (Wales) Bill. I would like to begin by thanking the three committees involved in the scrutiny of this Bill for their time and their hard work. It is in recognition of their efforts that I wrote to all three committees, in advance of today's debate, setting out in some detail my thoughts in response to their recommendations and conclusions, and I hope that the committee Chairs and Members have had a little time—albeit a little time—to reflect on the detailed responses.

I'd also like to thank all the stakeholders who provided written and oral evidence. I want particularly to highlight the work of the Children, Young People and Education Committee for its diligent and detailed scrutiny of both this Bill and also the underlying policy. I want to say at the start of this debate that I very much value the evidence the committee took during Stage 1 and the amount of work it has put into its report and its recommendations, and I look forward to the opportunity of working with the committee further on its wider recommendations about childcare and the sector in general, and those specific areas where it is highlighted that we as a Government need to do more to make it clear what support is available to help parents while working or training, for example.

Now, the Childcare Funding (Wales) Bill in front of us is a short and technical Bill that we introduced to support the roll-out of a single, national application and eligibility checking system for our childcare offer for Wales, and, of course, the childcare offer is a key commitment for this Government. It was first set out in the Welsh Labour manifesto, and it was restated in our programme for government, 'Taking Wales Forward'.

So, we are committed to providing 30 hours of Government-funded early education and childcare a week to working parents of three and four-year-olds in Wales for up to 48 weeks a year. We made this commitment because parents told us that they needed help with the costs of childcare, particularly those families on lower incomes where the costs of childcare make up a larger proportion of the weekly budget. But to be absolutely clear, we do not need to bring forward legislation to deliver the offer. We are already delivering it in parts of Wales, testing how it works for parents, for providers and for children. But this Bill will create a simple, 'once for Wales' process to check a person's eligibility, enabling them to access the childcare they need, simply.

Local authorities involved in the first year of the childcare pilots are doing a great job delivering the offer, but they tell us that the administrative burden is much larger than anticipated, and at a time when public services are stretched as a result of ongoing austerity pursued by the UK Government, I cannot—simply cannot—ask the local authorities to maintain such a paper-based, non-standardised, burdensome approach to checking eligibility for childcare. So, it is right and proper that we seek to take advantage of digital technology by developing this single 'once for Wales' system to process applications and to make eligibility checks, and this Bill will do just that.

I would like to thank the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, the Secretary of State for Wales, the Home Secretary and the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions for their support in developing this Bill. The intention is to appoint Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs to carry out the eligibility checks for the offer, enabling us to use the same system as the one being used to carry out such checks in England currently. It will mean parents in Wales will be able to apply for support with childcare costs under the tax-free childcare scheme at the same time as they apply for this offer, but working with HMRC now does not mean we could not look at a bespoke, Welsh solution in the future, if and when public finances allow. 

Dirprwy Lywydd, the three committees made a number of recommendations about the Bill, and I'll attempt to respond to many of these in the time I have. The Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee and the Children, Young People and Education Committee both raised the matter of consents. I can confirm consents for the Bill are in place and that I wrote to the Llywydd to confirm this on 9 July. Copies of the letters are available on the National Assembly website. Members will be aware that some of the regulations to be passed under the Bill also require the consent of relevant UK Government Ministers, so I'd like to reassure this Assembly that we are indeed working closely with the relevant UK departments, and I'm confident that the necessary consents to the regulations under the Bill will indeed be secured.

As you might expect, the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee asked that I review the balance between the provisions on the face of the Bill and those left to regulations. Now, I understand the reasons for this, and a number of its recommendations touched on areas where more detail on the face of the Bill would be helpful. In fact, these comments were echoed in some of the recommendations from the Children, Young People and Education Committee as well. So, I can confirm that I will bring forward Government amendments during Stage 2 of the Bill to provide more detail on the definition of a 'qualifying child' in line with the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee's recommendation 5. However, I am continuing to explore further how to address the various calls for the childcare offer to be included on the face of the Bill, and I will write to both the Children, Young People and Education Committee and the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee with further proposals as we develop these.

Now, many recommendations addressed operational details such as the hourly rate payable to providers, the split between childcare and education, the arrangements in school holidays and who can deliver this offer, calling for these details to be brought within the scope of the Bill. I remain of the view that such details would be better dealt with in the administrative scheme, rather than in the Bill itself, and I have explained the reasons why in my letters to the three committees. I have nonetheless committed to making an initial framework administrative scheme available to the Children, Young People and Education Committee ahead of Stage 3, and would welcome the opportunity to return to the committee in the spring to discuss the scheme in more detail.

Turning to the Finance Committee's report, I have accepted its recommendation that an update on the costs of working with HMRC be provided. The development of the application system will take place over the next 18 months, with regular review points. The appropriate governance and arrangements have been put in place and we're using the expertise of the Welsh Revenue Authority in this regard. I can also confirm to Members that HMRC is committed to providing a truly bilingual service and we are committed to taking every possible step to bring these jobs to Wales.

Dirprwy Lywydd, at the start of this debate, I mentioned that we have just started testing our childcare offer. In May, we extended the offer into seven more areas of Wales; it is now available in 14 areas in Wales. We are committed to learning from this phased roll-out and an independent evaluation of the first year of the programme will be published in November. I have agreed to make arrangements for members of the Children, Young People and Education Committee to have early sight of the evaluation findings to help its ongoing scrutiny of this Bill. I have also agreed to provide the committee with information about the take-up of the offer in the first year of delivery, and to keep the matter of additional charges under review.

Following issues raised by the Children, Young People and Education Committee, I will also be reviewing the Child Minding and Day Care Exceptions (Wales) Order 2010, which includes provisions setting out who can and cannot provide childcare, and I will share the findings with the committee.

I was pleased that, with the exception of one Member, the Children, Young People and Education Committee has recommended support of the general principles of the Bill, and clearly I'd urge the one Member to reconsider on this Stage 1 general principles debate. It is a recommendation I wholeheartedly support and one I commend to all Members, and I look forward, genuinely, to continuing to debate the Bill and hope the Assembly will today support its general principles. Thank you, Dirprwy Lywyddd.