6. Debate on the General Principles of the Childcare Funding (Wales) Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:57 pm on 18 September 2018.

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Photo of Mick Antoniw Mick Antoniw Labour 4:57, 18 September 2018

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. The Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee reported on the Childcare Funding (Wales) Bill on 28 June and it made 12 recommendations. As an aside, we have received yesterday the response to a number of those recommendations from the Minister, for which I'm grateful, and for the positive response to many of them. So, this report is very much on the Bill as it stands, and I will make comments in respect of some of the Minister's responses as best I can as we go through it.

It's not generally our role to comment on the general principles of a Bill. That's not the function of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee. However, the need for legislation is a consideration of the committee. The Bill is a skeleton Bill. It contains seven powers for the Welsh Ministers to make subordinate legislation, and in a 13-section Bill, this is extensive. In our view it lacks clarity and a clear statement of purpose. With so little detail on its face we believe the Bill does not satisfy the key principles of legislation. Primary legislation should not be framed so broadly with the intention of using it as a vehicle to introduce subordinate legislation to deal with what may happen in the future. This approach limits the ability of the National Assembly as a legislature to scrutinise and to debate suggested improvements to significant policy matters in a democratic forum.

We're not alone in expressing such concerns about legislation. Our counterpart committee in the House of Lords, the Constitution Committee, has recently similarly criticised the UK Government, and we agree with its comments that Bills that grant broad powers to Ministers are difficult for Parliament to scrutinise, and present a fundamental challenge to the balance of power between Parliament and the Executive. We have concerns that the National Assembly is being asked to grant wide regulation-making powers to Welsh Ministers that could be used to make provisions not anticipated by the National Assembly during its consideration of the Bill, and we're also concerned that the approach adopted in this Bill is not consistent with the Welsh Government's objective of making the law in Wales more accessible.

As we set out in our report, an alternative approach would be to include the necessary detail on the face of the Bill and also to include a provision that permits that detail to be amended by subordinate legislation subject to the affirmative procedure. Including such a Henry VIII power is not an ideal approach to law making, but it may be a reasonable compromise if the Welsh Government considers such flexibility to be necessary. Adding more detail to the face of the Bill would strengthen it considerably and would provide a clearer foundation for the policy that it seeks to deliver.

Our second recommendation suggested that the Minister undertake a fundamental review of the balance between what is on the face of the Bill and what is left to subordinate legislation. And I take this opportunity to thank the Minister for his formal response to our report, which I've already referred to. I welcome the fact he has listened to the concerns of the committee and has undertaken a review of the balance of power. I look forward to seeing the amendments the Minister intends to bring forward at Stage 2 in this respect.

Moving on to the childcare offer, the Welsh Government is legislating for its offer before the conclusion of the relevant pilot programmes and the consequent appraisal of the effectiveness of the policy. For that reason, we believe there is merit in considering whether a review requirement and a sunset provision should be built into the Bill. Such provisions would follow an approach already adopted by the Welsh Government in the Public Health (Minimum Price for Alcohol) (Wales) Bill.

Recommendation 3 of our report highlighted these issues and asked the Minister to update the Assembly on his consideration of these issues during this afternoon's debate. I welcome the Minister's commitment to explore the options available in respect of this recommendation and I look forward to receiving the update in due course from the Minister as proposals are developed.

Now, during our scrutiny of the Bill, it was not clear to us why issues of principle relating to the Welsh Government’s childcare offer cannot appear on the face of the Bill. As such, we recommended that the Bill should, on its face, commit the Welsh Government to providing its childcare offer, whatever that may be. 

Recommendation 4—again, I welcome the Minister's commitment to exploring the options available in respect of this recommendation and look forward to receiving an update from the Minister in due course.

Recommendation 5 of our report further recommended that the core eligibility criteria concerning who is a qualifying child or a working parent should appear on the face of the Bill, accompanied by a provision enabling these criteria to be amended in the future by regulations that are subject to the affirmative procedure. We disagree with the Minister that the eligibility criteria will be technical in nature and therefore consultation on draft regulations concerning the criteria may not be suitable. We believe that failing to consult on such substantive matters would be contrary to public law principles. I am pleased to see that the Minister has accepted our recommendation and will be bringing forward amendments at Stage 2 to provide clarity in relation to who is a qualifying child.

Moving on to the administrative scheme, the scheme will have no legal status and yet will detail very important matters. We are concerned that these important issues will be left to a document that is not subject to any requirement of scrutiny by the National Assembly. We do not consider that either the hourly rate payable for the childcare or who can provide such care are matters that should be decided without scrutiny by the National Assembly. We recommended that amendments should be brought forward at Stage 2 to ensure that such provisions will be made in regulations subject to the affirmative procedure. That was recommendation 7. The Minister hasn't accepted this recommendation. However, I do note that he has offered to provide the Children, Young People and Education Committee with an initial draft of the scheme ahead of the Stage 3 proceedings.

And, finally, I will briefly mention recommendation 12, that the Bill should be amended so that any commencement Order made under section 12(1) of the Bill is subject to Assembly scrutiny and the negative procedure. The Minister has not accepted this recommendation, on the grounds that the making of the commencement Orders is not normally subject to any procedure in the Assembly. In response, I would just reiterate the conclusions made in our report. For commencement Orders that will derive from a Bill that contains such little detail on its face, it is important that the primary legislation empowers the National Assembly with a right to scrutinise those Orders. We consider that a skeleton Bill should not make use of a procedure that inhibits future scrutiny by the legislature.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.