3. Will the Cabinet Secretary outline the advice the Welsh Government currently provides to local authorities in relation to rural school closures? OAQ52595

5. What is the Welsh Government doing to protect rural schools? OAQ52599

Thank you, Andrew. Presiding Officer, I understand that you have given your permission for question 3 and question 5 to be grouped. 

The school organisation code, made under the School Standards and Organisation (Wales) Act 2013, imposes requirements on Welsh Ministers, local authorities and governing bodies in respect of school organisation and provides guidance to which they must have regard when considering the closure of any school, including those in a rural setting. 

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for that answer. Just before the summer recess, you issued new guidance in relation to rural schools—something that was welcomed. Obviously, that guidance will come into effect later on in the year. I'd be grateful to understand what weight local authorities should place on that specific guidance that you've put out there, at the moment. As I understand, it hasn't been incorporated into the code, but many authorities—and I think of one in the Vale of Glamorgan—are deciding on school closures as we speak, and it is important that there isn't a rush to shut many vulnerable schools before this new guidance comes into the code. So, could you indicate what weight you, as the Cabinet Secretary, place on the note that you put out just before the summer recess, please? 

Well, Andrew, as you've recognised, we are revising the code. The draft code that has been revised to reflect the consultation responses—the consultation that took place last year—was laid before the Assembly on Monday of this week. As is required by the 2013 Act, the code has to be laid for 40 days, following which it may come into force unless the Assembly resolves not to approve it. Therefore, I would expect the new code to come into force on 1 November, colleagues around this Chamber willing. We have been very clear to local authorities about the direction of policy travel in this area and I would expect them to be cognisant of that when they're making any decisions about the future of a rural school that would be listed under the new code. 

Cabinet Secretary, I've heard, in relation to the proposed transfer/closure of Llancarfan Primary School, which my colleague has just referred to, that the issue of access to the school building programme requires schools, often, to be built on new sites and schools to be consolidated or expanded. This is a real problem for schools in rural communities, where there may be a constrained site, no alternative available and where money is not available for adaptation—you've just got to go with a comprehensive new build—and this restricts the choices that local authorities have, especially when they want to increase the viability of our smaller, rural schools. Will you look at the building programme?

First of all, can I say that it is not a requirement of the twenty-first century schools programme, to access that money, to have a completely new build? In fact, I have been to refurbishment projects the length and breadth of this country where twenty-first century schools programme money has been used to refurbish part of a school—in fact, in your new leader's constituency not so long ago. So, this idea that you could only access that money if you build a brand new school from scratch is a fallacy. That is not correct.

Each case that is put forward by our partners in local government is judged on its merits. What I do understand, with regard to the issue that I know was exercising the mind of both Andrew and you, and the Assembly Member for the Vale of Glamorgan, is the case of Llancarfan. The decision that was taken at a meeting, I believe, on Monday of this week, is that the consultation that the Vale has gone out to is now to be referred to their scrutiny committee, and they are to allow the members of that scrutiny committee to look at the proposals that the Vale of Glamorgan Council has come forward with—which I welcome—and it will ultimately be a matter for those who run the Vale of Glamorgan Council to make a decision on the future of that school.

I think my views on supporting rural schools are well known. I sympathise with councils in all parts of Wales that face impossible budgetary scenarios and I do think that the Government has to secure adequate funding to support innovative methods of keeping schools in our communities and providing support to create multi-site area schools, which is something that I support. One element that puts pressure on education budgets, as we’ve heard, is the backlog of maintenance work, and I hear what you say as Cabinet Secretary, but, without doubt, the trend is there in the twenty-first century schools programme towards building new, larger schools, which don’t necessarily work in rural areas. So, can you, as Cabinet Secretary, give a commitment to seek a new package of finance that is substantial and specifically for this purpose, so that the condition of a school building in rural Wales isn’t such a strong driver when it comes to making decisions on the future of schools?

Again, Presiding Officer, I would have to challenge the implication by the Member that twenty-first century schools is only available for new buildings. Again, I have been to schools in the Member's own constituency—to refurbishment projects—where investment has been used to improve facilities at a school.

With regard to additional resources for rural schools, the Member will be aware that we will be making additional resources of some £10 million over this Assembly available through our new small and rural schools grant to encourage innovation and support greater school-to-school working to address issues and some of the practical difficulties of delivering education in a rural area—money that his own council has been made aware of and has applied for and is being utilised.

Cabinet Secretary, I've read the code that was laid on Monday. In it, it has a designation of rural schools for the purpose of presumption against closure, and it uses the Office for National Statistics' rural and urban classification, which I accept, and that's why the list on the back is there. But when you then go and look at the extra, detailed requirements, I ask the question: why aren't they applicable to all schools, because actually, those extra requirements should be applicable to every single school that's being considered for closure? The local authority in my area has designated the closure of Cymer Afan Comprehensive School, but the detailed, conscientious study that is required, particularly around community impact, has to be applied to every single school. Will you look at this and say that it's not just for rural schools and that this should be for every school?

Well, David, you will be aware that the regulations and the code set out a very stringent set of criteria that local authorities must apply when looking to close any school. It was important to me, and I feel it is important to many rural communities given the nature of rural life, that an added protection is made available to schools that serve a rural community. If we're to have a presumption against the closure of those schools then we have to have a list and we have to have an honest and open, transparent criteria as to how a school gets on the list. We have used, as you stated, the Office for National Statistics urban/rural classification to do that. As a result of the consultation, we have expanded the categories of schools that will be covered by the rural list to include more schools than were initially envisaged by this Government. But when considering the future of any school, the rest of the code applies and my expectation is that any local authority would apply that code rigorously, which looks at the community impact any school closure may have, whether that school closure be in a rural or in a more urban area.